A simple poll regarding player raid rules

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's worse than welfare. Rotation doesn't fix the core problem of the current system, which is the total elimination of competition. The encounters in classic are not hard, given sufficient time and personnel. If you agree to just let one guild amass 30 people and spend half an hour prepping for a raid mob, this game is fucking easy. What made EQ end-game challenging was the time constraint, the fact that you were always on this time crunch to engage before another guild could beat you to the punch.

The whole dynamic is thrown off when there's no competition. You don't have to make the choice between engaging Naggy with 16 or waiting 5 minutes for another 5-6 people. There's no risk to waiting. In live, there was. You were trying to engage before the next guy, which means every guild would engage the second they had what they considered to be the absolute bare minimum in terms of personnel and preparation. That led to under-manning raid mobs, which is fun. And difficult. It's easy to wipe when you're going at it with too few raiders -- which would open the floor up for the next guild.

EQ Live end-game raiding was baseball. At the moment, P99 end-game raiding is tee-ball. You're not playing against anyone. You're just sizing it up and whacking the shit out of it.

Remember that in 1999 the vast majority of players were probably playing on dial-up. Further, cell phones weren't huge then and neither was text messaging. It isn't the same game because we aren't the same players. We have hindsight of all quests, all mobs, all zones. Of course the game will seem like tee-ball. There's no challenge the second time around.

I'm sure many of these hardcore raiders on P1999 just want to relive their glory from 1999 because of the novelty of being uber back then in a mmorpg. Today's mmorpgs don't provide that satisfaction because everybody walks around in the same equipment because everything is instanced (think WoW). They need to feel cool with their god loot. Let them. If they want to spend a large portion of their life on this game - let them have as much loot as they want. Remember, even if you win the special Olympics -- you're still retarded.

[Dukat]

Raiding is kind of a boring, tedious activity. This game IS freakin' old. Thats why I welcome any kind of competitive metagame. I think FFA is as classic as this server can get. I think players would start talking to other players instead of to GMs.

There comes a time when you need to take the training wheels off and ride freely....

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by Dukat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raiding is kind of a boring, tedious activity. This game IS freakin' old. Thats why I welcome any kind of competitive metagame. I think FFA is as classic as this server can get. I think players would start talking to other players instead of to GMs.

There comes a time when you need to take the training wheels off and ride freely....

I have to agree. Yeah it's "civilized" to not allow training or behavior that negatively affects others but in the current state of things the raid scene is boring as hell without it. I'm sure people would have a hard time poopsocking AFK is they run the risk of being trained while they were away.

Think of all the problems it would solve. GMs should just say "we'll fix bugs and glitches but otherwise players are left to their own devices, they can make of the world what they wish". May be the game will turn into a cutthroat train-fest. May be in the beginning it will be that way before guilds start figuring out ways to not step on each others toes. That's just the point though - if there are limited mean to step on the toes of others then the only leverage anybody has in the game is going by the GM rules to win.

Let's face it, we might see complaints on the forums about trains to the EC tunnel and banning people who do them but while we're sitting in EC trying to buy an item for an hour or so we can't help but smile when we see a huge pile of mobs run past us with a huge flux of /ooc and /shout screaming "TRAIN TO TUNNEL". We scramble with mixed feelings of "not again" to "thank god a reason to get up and cast a spell". I watch as many players go to town on destroying the mobs that some a-hole brought to piss people off.

I've heard it said many times by many people involved in the poopsocking that they don't like it. They continue only because it's the only way to win. These concepts are at odds - enjoyment and winning - when they really ought not to be - especially if we as the playerbase can help influence the rules.

What do you guys really want? Do you want a carebear environment where things are handed to you so long as you "maintain a presence at a camp", idle, chit chatting about football with your guild and cracking internet jokes, and quickly springing to attention when you get a pop. OR do you want a dynamic, fast paced, unforgiving world where people can totally screw you over and you can totally screw them over. Where you can act nobly and respect a guild as they get a kill or become notorious for stealing and doing whatever it takes.

The game will become much more than sitting around waiting for easy kills. It will become a game of politics, of eagerness, of preparation, of collusion, of training, of leapfrogging. You say "But if we allow training it will happen 24/7." perhaps, but may be not, may be in the beginning people will train left and right, but perhaps eventually learn nobody will get anywhere if that's all they do it one another. Perhaps an enchanter can camp frenzy in lguk but a group can get rid of him by training....in the process losing something....their reputation as respectful players. If done enough time, they'll be refused groups with the people they train. They'll be socially blacklisted. Eventually though I think players will form their own solutions to not have to harm one another's game play, and it will be their solution, the players, not the GMs telling them to play nice - because they aren't required - but because it's a social game where people must deal with the positive and negative inclinations of others.

A FFA system isn't as bad as people anticipated and those who fear it fear the destructive capabilities of others to prevent them from obtaining loot. This is nothing more than hiding behind the GMs.

You can choose to look at FFA as unlocking the gate to the deepest darkest motives to grief others in the game OR as a huge layer of complex and dynamic challenge of interacting with other REAL LIFE human beings in a social environment where one is given the choice of how one wishes to interact: the social consequences and benefits in full swing.

[Detnogetsovs]

Play something else.

P99 suck donkey balls and that's it, nothing else, nothing more.

[Dukat]

Originally Posted by Detnogetsovs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... and that's it, nothing else, nothing more.

I'm happy you've decided to stop posting. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[G13]

You guys have no idea what a shitstorm true FFA would really be

[Noleafclover]

Legal system of rules that amounts to FFAish tracking and killing -

1. no camping (except tracker). SSes by respected guilds result in warning/suspension
2. no camping a zone over. same shit.
3. same claims as now when a mob has spawned, first in gets it. longer time for ct since you'll be clearing fear.

get a few lawyers, that one's a toughy.

only thing is i'm not sure if zones'll crash if 4 guilds enter at the same time trying to get 15 there first.

[Kinamur1999]

All I see are a bunch of people pushing for ffa so they can train and not get banned for it.

Is that the only solution you people can think of? They have it, I want it, so I'm going to fucking take it.

Sure training, leapfrogging, racing was fun 10 years ago but I kind of thought that after 10 years people would have their fill of training.

Call it classic, call it competition but training another raid just so you can steal their mob and not have to wait a week is simply being an asshole.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Noleafclover [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Legal system of rules that amounts to FFAish tracking and killing -

1. no camping (except tracker). SSes by respected guilds result in warning/suspension
2. no camping a zone over. same shit.
3. same claims as now when a mob has spawned, first in gets it. longer time for ct since you'll be clearing fear.

get a few lawyers, that one's a toughy.

only thing is i'm not sure if zones'll crash if 4 guilds enter at the same time trying to get 15 there first.

How are you possibly going to enforce claims and dictate where people may camp out?? How the hell can you tell me I can't camp in a zone? Maybe I'm camping a quest mob. Having to screenshot for a suspension for logging out in a zone is far more immature than anything occuring in the current ruleset.

What dictates a "respected guild?" Why can only they send screenshots? Why would they be able to get people suspended for being in a zone?

Claims as now include 15 in zone and specific timers. You have to have 15 in the zone to get it and there are still races to get 15 first. Nothing is different in that regard as it is now. All you did was add a no camping rule to the current ruleset, which is highly improbable that you could even enforce it in any effective manner.

[G13]

People are racing to mobs as well under the current raid rules

They are just doing in advance to stake their claims

You people can twist, scheme, and try to fluster over raid rules for years like a rubix cube. None of the solutions can change the single greatest flaw in classic EQ

5 raid mobs a week. 900 people on the server