Picking a class for real!

[Elements]

Warriors can overcome pretty much all of their shortcomings on this server. If you are looking to group someone should be able to root. Get the mobs rooted and stand closest for 100% proximity agro. GG you just overcame your threat issues while preventing runners at the same time. You can also obtain rechargable agro clickies. I carry bags full of these on my war allowing for snap agro and some clutch CC in a pinch. That said warriors are hugely gear dependant and are probably not ideal to play up to 60 for your first class. Doable but not ideal. Warriors also get invis clickies, tash sticks, snare whip, and for mobilization get jboots, ot hammer and wc cap like everyone else at high level. With fungi and some decent haste/weapons warriors can solo into the 50s at a decent pace and slower beyond that. Bring bandaids.

My recomendation to you would be the SK. Less gear dependant to group up to 60. Has the ability to solo up to 60 (may be quite slow). Probably has a bit more potential to solo cash camps than a warrior at high level. Harder timefinding groups than warriors due to xp penalty being shared by the group. But you get access to all the tricks from spells rather than clickies and expensive gear.

Either are viable but sk would be able to solo a few mobs while looking for a group easier than a non twinked warrior.

Edit: I really cannot express enough love for the warrior. Depending on what your goals are in game you can also access hide and sneak, allowing for sneak pulling in some areas. This is probably the one area that an SK will always outshine a warrior: pulling. Dont forget warriors also get access to a slow procing 2 hander adding even more utility to their kit. Oh and did I mention stun? 55+ kick stuns. If you see a caster/healer casting, spin around and kick him in the back for 100% chanceto interrupt. Done correctly you can lock down a low hp mob trying to heal or spare yourself that 800+ hp nuke to the face.

Sure all warriors get baseline is kick and and taunt but they have huge potential late game.

[Lucia Moonglow]

Thanks again for all the input.

Shaman sounds tempting but I reeeeeally don't like relying entirely on mana, which is why I'm real big on melee classes.

My monk is only level 9, but I do enjoy it quite a bit. Funny thing is I did make a shaman but didn't play her much before hopping over to the monk.

I won't be deleting my ranger anytime soon (even though I want the name, damn it!) as I am holding out hopes that after Velious has been out a while, the server developers may look into making their own "classic-themed" expansions, sort of a "the way it should have been" type deal.

Certainly, if monk becomes boring or I can't get used to pulling, I will try shaman!

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

warriors have huge potential late game.

No argument from me there, but the road is long. Aside from leveling up to 60, you have the most gear dependent class in the game, and most of the gear you need is difficult to get without joining TMO.

I spent 1 million pp just getting weapons.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No argument from me there, but the road is long. Aside from leveling up to 60, you have the most gear dependent class in the game, and most of the gear you need is difficult to get without joining TMO.

I spent 1 million pp just getting weapons.

Easy fix, break up with gf, join TMO, batphone for a month, leave tmo, and then join the guild that you wanted to join in the first place. Find new girlfriend.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No argument from me there, but the road is long. Aside from leveling up to 60, you have the most gear dependent class in the game, and most of the gear you need is difficult to get without joining TMO.

I spent 1 million pp just getting weapons.

I think there are a few guilds around capable of doing the warrior epic. A couple pieces like the green scale and spiroc wingblade can be bought/MQd. And cobalt is overrated ).

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think there are a few guilds around capable of doing the warrior epic. A couple pieces like the green scale and spiroc wingblade can be bought/MQd. And cobalt is overrated ).

Green scales are 400k and even if you can afford those the epic isn't enough; you really need a good proccing offhand. I'm sure you can get by without the cobalt bp/greaves and the crown of rile (certainly my iksar warrior manges) but they seem like a pretty decent upgrade to me.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Green scales are 400k and even if you can afford those the epic isn't enough; you really need a good proccing offhand. I'm sure you can get by without the cobalt bp/greaves and the crown of rile (certainly my iksar warrior manges) but they seem like a pretty decent upgrade to me.

Wow didnt know green scales had jumped up so much. Why does one need a proccing offhand?

[Splorf22]

I think you are picking bad examples. Sure if you have 20+ L60 toons for Hate/Fear then you're going to roflstomp it and who cares if the enchanter is tanking 90% of the time. Or if you are duo with say a shaman in the crypt, they'll be fine if they have to tank for a bit while getting something slowed. There are only six mobs, and most shamans can solo the camp anyway. So sure, in those cases you could afk and have a beer with your friends and things would still be fine.

But let's move you to a more challenging camp, like the spore king in Sebilis (or even islands 4+ in Sky assuming you have 20ish). Shrooms (or spirocs, etc) have very high MR; you're going to need tash, malo, and multiple attempts to get them slowed. The spore king is all about dps; you'd really like to unleash the rogues as soon as possible. Your healer will be busy keeping the enchanter alive when he gets multiple mez resists/charm breaks. Sure, you can push all the responsibility for threat onto your team. But you'd really prefer to let them do their jobs correctly. Suppose you have solid dps and you are kiling those shrooms every 50 seconds. Your enchanter/shaman are disciplined so they'll wait until they can throw one tash/slow without pulling aggro. Let's say with two proccing weapons they can get stuff slowed in 15 seconds on average; with one it takes 20 (with a Paladin tanking it would take 10 seconds).

Paladin: 10s unslowed, 40s slowed / 75% slow = 20s
Sakuragi: 15s unslowed, 35s slowed / 75% slow = 23.75s (+19%)
Elements: 20s unslowed, 30s slowed / 75% slow = 27.5s (+35%)

Again these are just made-up numbers, and you can certainly cry min-max, but the point is that two proccing weapons are going to give you far more reduction in damage taken by allowing your teammates to do their job than any other slot in terms of HP/AC unless you burn some mallet charges.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are picking bad examples. Sure if you have 20+ L60 toons for Hate/Fear then you're going to roflstomp it and who cares if the enchanter is tanking 90% of the time. Or if you are duo with say a shaman in the crypt, they'll be fine if they have to tank for a bit while getting something slowed. There are only six mobs, and most shamans can solo the camp anyway. So sure, in those cases you could afk and have a beer with your friends and things would still be fine.

But let's move you to a more challenging camp, like the spore king in Sebilis (or even islands 4+ in Sky assuming you have 20ish). Shrooms (or spirocs, etc) have very high MR; you're going to need tash, malo, and multiple attempts to get them slowed. The spore king is all about dps; you'd really like to unleash the rogues as soon as possible. Your healer will be busy keeping the enchanter alive when he gets multiple mez resists/charm breaks. Sure, you can push all the responsibility for threat onto your team. But you'd really prefer to let them do their jobs correctly. Suppose you have solid dps and you are kiling those shrooms every 50 seconds. Your enchanter/shaman are disciplined so they'll wait until they can throw one tash/slow without pulling aggro. Let's say with two proccing weapons they can get stuff slowed in 15 seconds on average; with one it takes 20 (with a Paladin tanking it would take 10 seconds).

Paladin: 10s unslowed, 40s slowed / 75% slow = 20s
Sakuragi: 15s unslowed, 35s slowed / 75% slow = 23.75s (+19%)
Elements: 20s unslowed, 30s slowed / 75% slow = 27.5s (+35%)

Again these are just made-up numbers, and you can certainly cry min-max, but the point is that two proccing weapons are going to give you far more reduction in damage taken by allowing your teammates to do their job than any other slot in terms of HP/AC unless you burn some mallet charges.

Again I'm not going to argue your points because they are valid I just don't see how they support your premise that off-hand proc weapons are "needed' by warriors. I've done king camp in small groups and like any camp your limited by spawn time. So when we extrapolate that 5s difference in 75% swing speed to the entire respawn time, how much efficiency was actually gained? <1%? And when we start looking at raid targets when you have more than one tank, and a warrior is allowed to build threat for X amount of time before the assist is actually changed to their target, again how much efficiency is gained? Further, your likely going to be topped up between pulls by a CH so did that on average 5s of an extra 75% swing speed on the mob equate to an extra CH? If not, again your not really realizing the extra efficiency. And not to mention this is all assuming you are able to maintain equal dex when not wielding the warrior epic offhand.

So I agree with you that its nice to have, and technically BiS, but not "needed".