What is the point of a bard?

[sanforce]

Bards are extremely useful at high levels, can solo well, PL well ($ maker), and pretty much rock in any group (not exp groups). You can easily take a Bard to 60 with cloth armor and instruments from the guild merchant. I think it was a great starting class for you.

Then again, they are quite a bit of work. I'm level 60 and only really raid with my bard because twisting for hours on end in a loot group just isn't worth it. I prefer a lazy class for grouping and my bard for raiding.

[Splorf22]

Bards are extremely useful in almost all situations. They are utterly fantastic in groups (only enchanters are better). They are great on raids (pulls, mana pumps, resists - try fighting the spiroc lord without bard MR). They are even solid at farming - Culprit being one of the best there.

I played a bard to L50 (ok, I had a fungi and some twink gear) and always got compliments. 'blah blah bards are so op blah blah'. If you don't feel like you are kicking ass on your bard, you are doing it wrong.

[Adolphus]

I think the pitfall that both the OP and (some) of the responders are falling into here is in plain sight: Bard versus what?

What is the OP comparing the Bard too exactly? What are his expectations of the class versus his perception of the other classes? So far, his only mention of Bard relative to anything has been World of Warcraft. He hasn't actually leveled another class, according to his own words, to truly understand what makes him viable and special.

Like some have mentioned before: Bard is truly the most difficult, deep and complex class that there is in classic EQ. It's a class that takes real skill. And Bard's can solo far better than many classes if played well. Far better.

I have a couple high level Rogue's and a Warrior and I can't solo for shit. I have a strict "role" in raids that only allows me to do one thing and one thing only. I would absolutely kill to be able to play a high level Bard for solo-challenge, raid viability and utility in all types of groups. That is my dream character. Unfortunately, my hands won't allow for me endure the necessary song twists to be viable.

Honestly OP, it's possible that Bard isn't for you. However, you have made several statements that demonstrate a lack of understanding the class. If your complaint is that you can't solo certain mobs on the Bard - then you've pigeonholed yourself into only two classes in this game: Shaman and Enchanter. And even for both of those classes, they can't always solo the same mobs and they certainly can't solo every mob in the game. Some solo-challenges are better for Shaman than Enchanter and vice-verse. If I were you, I'd read up on Bard - ask for tips and tricks and give it another shot before you succumb to rolling another main because you think Bard isn't viable, when it is (in my mind) the most viable class overall in the game.

[Weekapaug]

The EQ Bard is the shining exemplary example of the old thing about the player making the class. More than any other class how you play and how much you improvise using your ridiculously vast skillset will dictate how wanted and needed you will be. Rarely does a group ever say "Hey let's fill that last spot with a bard." What you want them to say is "Hey let's fill that last spot with Getsmurfed, he is awesome." As they used to ask on the old class forums, are you a rockstar or a one hit wonder?

Some of this thread is painful to read. Yes every class that does the same things you do, do them better. You do realize that everything you do stacks? Your mana song stacks with Clarity and, when we get them, mana regen items. Same goes for regen. And haste. And resists. Etc. Your charms and mezzes arent as good as an enchanter but, then, you are wearing plate and can take a few hits, making you arguably safer and better CC and dps from charmed mobs. You aren't a tank but you can easily pull aggro and off-tank in a pinch. You aren't DPS but you do reasonable melee dps and shitloads of indirect dps via the enhancements you bring to the dps classes in your group. I'll take a talented bard puller over a monk any day. You have lull, selos, can take a hit and can charm and mez if you get a bad pull. Or kite whole groups of mobs out of a camp and highsun them back to the group to kill. Etc Etc Etc..... AND you do 99% of it with no mana usage. Your only downtime is because you need to rest your twisting hand.

Solo not practical? First, you do need to realize that in EQ just being able to solo at all is a privlege that not all classes get. For those that can, soloing usually consists of killing a mob, maybe two, then sitting for 10 mins medding, unless you are one of a handful of classes that shine as soloers. Most who do, do it because it moves the bar, not because it is particularly fast or fun. When I was kiting with my druid thru the 20s and 30s I could only stand it because I could afk and do other things between kites medding. And I was making mad cash killing giants. Back in the day on live I did it with a wiz and if it wasn't my first main I would have gone insane had I known better. My point is, this....there are classes that can't solo at all. There are classes that can solo but its situational and can be iffy. And for most classes who solo its really not all that much fun.

Bards are arguably the best soloers. You can AoE kite, which is harder here than live and you have to choose your spots and times well or you can piss people off, but that's just one way bards solo. I'm told swarming (with charm, not AOE....and no the terms aren't interchangeable despite popular opinion here, apparently) is screwed up here because of the way social aggro works but I'm kind of interested in finding out for myself. Regardless, you can still charm kill singles. You can fear kite single mobs. You can chant kite singles or 2 at once. You get to choose how many you solo at once because you are the puller you are. You have almost endless options for soloing and you get to do it with an amount of downtime of your chosing.

The problem is not with Bards or Bards doing what they should. There is nothing wrong with the bard class whatsoever, although I would submit that having songs go into the main buffbox and the hybrid exp penalty really sucks, but that's just my own personal complaint. The real question here is this....Are you up to the task of playing a bard? 90% of people who play EQ are not, so don't sweat it if you aren't. I'm among the majority a lot of the time. It takes a special mindset and creativity as well as a durable twisting hand and sometimes you really just want to get in a group and fill a role. You don't as a bard...you create one by working hard at it.

The biggest challenge you have is getting into groups. People are lazy and don't want to think outside the box. Good bards stand out, but bad ones can ruin your day and those experiences aren't good for the reputation of the class. Threads like this don't help, either.

Good luck.

[Barkingturtle]

What is the point of a bard? What is the point of anything? Cease this endless conflict and seek salvation in the Temple of Life, imo.

[SCB]

Originally Posted by Ajkuhuun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be awesome. Observe the bards in the picture below;

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I have this poster on my wall.

On the subject - bards are the best possible class to add to any situation. I would add a bard over any other class in any situation. Downside is, I'd only want one bard.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You do realize that everything you do stacks? Your man's song stacks with Clarity and, when we get them, mana regen items. Same goes for regen. And haste. And resists. Etc.

Enjoyed this post a lot overall, but minor correction - song haste does not stack with spell haste until the Ervaj line in Velious.

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is the point of a bard? What is the point of anything? Cease this endless conflict and seek salvation in the Temple of Life, imo.

Enjoyed this~

Bards are an amazing class and I don't understand the OP's gripes at all. They're incredible soloers (and as others have pointed out, the ability to solo is a privilege, not a right, in EQ), incredible in groups, and incredible in raids, they don't require any gear to get started without it being a pain in the ass, AND they're actually interesting and fun to play, to boot. Their raid role is boring but so is every single other raid role. If you want exciting raid gameplay, EQ isn't for you. If you want an MMO where every class is good at everything, EQ isn't for you. EQ is about unforgiving, no-guarantees gameplay and the need to band together to accomplish things. Really don't understand where you're coming from.

What is this existential crisis you're having? You got an amazing class to a high level, the world is your oyster, and now you've decided that it's not the optimal class for someone starting out for the first time? I'm playing a wizard, dude. Boring as fuck class, hated in groups, meh soloer, and useful in raids, but boring in raids too. More boring than a bard, even - I only use one ability, instead of twisting a couple of songs (hyperbole, but still). I have my reasons for playing it and I still enjoy the class despite its flaws. Maybe play the game more casually and don't worry about every little thing? I don't know what to tell you.

[fastboy21]

bard first over haste was in velious...why i said they matured in those later expansions very well. fade was another big one that came in luclin.

[t0lkien]

I've only ever played a Bard in EQ because it's the most self-sufficient, versatile class in the game. It's useful from the low game to the end-game, and can usually find a way to do anything with enough thought, luck, skill, and persistence. You can always solo - always. Between charm kiting, AoE kiting, Fear kiting, and DoT kiting there is never nothing to do if you can't get a group. If you want to be "powerful" as in top the DPS meters or tank or be the reason a full raid force can't raid (tank, healer, top end CC), then pick another class.

Bards are not easy to play well, and in the endgame tend to be dependent on their epic (which is a game-changer). I've been playing one since 2001 and I'm still learning stuff. They are hard work often, and if you don't want to be tapping keys constantly, investigating the intricacies of server ticks, knowing which song does what, stacks or doesn't stack with what, how to fit in with other classes in a group, and which gear can cover a hole in all the other abilities, they're not going to be fun. I think it's fair to say that on p99 the majority of Bards don't play the class, they play the low HP kiting exploit. The truly specialist Bards shine.

Plus we run significant faster than anything else in the game. This alone makes Bards rockstars.

P.S. In answer to your endgame question though - we are all about resists, mana regen, and some haste (and if you believe Thott -which I don't really - pulling). That is our thing. We are also all about our epic at that point. In Velious we get Occlusion of Sound which, while it may not be technically crucial, is a huge raid boon on highly resistant mobs and can be the difference between success and a wipe. Every class gets pigeon-holed into roles in the endgame. It's how it works. I'm personally thankful we have a vaild role there, because some other classes don't really.

[Bardalicious]

Dunno how anyone could have the impression that bards are remotely useless, of course with the exception of you grouping with awful players.

They have incredible versatility with their song arsenal and can fit well in almost any group, period. If you're gauging your DPS ability as what makes this class "strong" or "useful" then you're playing it for the wrong reason and should have rolled monk or rogue.