Bard swarm kiting that kills other players

[citizen1080]

Bards take over OT (shitty xp zone) and Burning woods (which has 1 XP camp, the giant fort which is usually perma camped and left alone)

Druids take over Unrest. Pretty much the best xp zone for that lvl range. Where is the druid hate?

[Freakish]

I hate druids.

[zanderklocke]

If I understand aggro correctly, if a level 60 bard were to snare these mobs, they should never each touch anyone they roam by...unless the bard dies correct?

From personal experience, I've never seen a green mob in Overthere that I touched aggro another mob. Only I can aggro mobs by standing on top of them (sarnaks/tigers/rhinos) or intentionally hitting/snaring them...they never socially aggro each other if I run them through each other if they are all green to me. Therefore, I don't think there is a problem with high level bards accidentally stealing mobs. If mobs were stolen, it was usually intentional or by low-hp aggro, which I will touch on below.

To my first question, I've been under the impression that as long as the bard pulls a mob by aggroing it with damage/snare, it shouldn't attack other people it runs by. Has the recent patch changed how aggro works?

Furthermore, bards should probably just not run mobs through people. There is no reason a bard should ever have to run a train by the zone lines or zone walls. Heck, even bards running mobs through other bards' mobs drives people crazy because if any bard goes low hp due to getting hit or low-hp kiting, the aggro in the zone gets all funky and mobs all run at the low hp bard if he ran through others' mobs earlier.

Bards need to pay better attention if they see people, and people should watch out if they see bards. However, this takes diligence by both sides. However, bards probably have the greater power due to speed, so just don't run over people. It's really not that hard to control a train of mobs as a bard.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I understand aggro correctly, if a level 60 bard were to snare these mobs, they should never each touch anyone they roam by...unless the bard dies correct?

From personal experience, I've never seen a green mob in Overthere that I touched aggro another mob. Only I can aggro mobs by standing on top of them (sarnaks/tigers/rhinos) or intentionally hitting/snaring them...they never socially aggro each other if I run them through each other if they are all green to me. Therefore, I don't think there is a problem with high level bards accidentally stealing mobs. If mobs were stolen, it was usually intentional or by low-hp aggro, which I will touch on below.

To my first question, I've been under the impression that as long as the bard pulls a mob by aggroing it with damage/snare, it shouldn't attack other people it runs by. Has the recent patch changed how aggro works?

Furthermore, bards should probably just not run mobs through people. There is no reason a bard should ever have to run a train by the zone lines or zone walls. Heck, even bards running mobs through other bards' mobs drives people crazy because if any bard goes low hp due to getting hit or low-hp kiting, the aggro in the zone gets all funky and mobs all run at the low hp bard if he ran through others' mobs earlier.

Bards need to pay better attention if they see people, and people should watch out if they see bards. However, this takes diligence by both sides. However, bards probably have the greater power due to speed, so just don't run over people. It's really not that hard to control a train of mobs as a bard.

Ahhhh! Zander you have solved an aggro mystery for me I think. On seafury island I have noticed that during charm kiting BOTH my pet and the mob it is fighting (when charm breaks) will sometimes start running away from me toward somewhere else. Then, after I chase them down, they will return. I'm guessing it's low HP aggro from someone else on the island who has passed through my pet/mob's aggro range at some point? Is low HP aggro really that broken?

[mreynert]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is low HP aggro really that broken?

You can kill mobs in Burning Woods from full to dead without pulling aggro because the bait is on low hp aggro. Only the higher lvl stuff requires like one camp/zone out of the aggro.

It's not absolute, but it's pretty ridiculous.

[Mendo]

I always wondered why a bard was allowed to own all of the camps in a zone? Seems like they are definitely breaking the "don't be a douche" rule. I'm always so tempted to root one of their mobs when they are running in circles. I don't because I'm not willing to break the "don't be a douche" rule. HAHA

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahhhh! Zander you have solved an aggro mystery for me I think. On seafury island I have noticed that during charm kiting BOTH my pet and the mob it is fighting (when charm breaks) will sometimes start running away from me toward somewhere else. Then, after I chase them down, they will return. I'm guessing it's low HP aggro from someone else on the island who has passed through my pet/mob's aggro range at some point? Is low HP aggro really that broken?

Yes, low-hp aggro is quite insane. It seems to only affect mobs like level 30 (maybe 25+?). There is no way to pull a mob off someone that is low hp unless you really piss off the mob. By pissing off the mob I mean doing an exorbitant amount of damage/snaring. That is why people in Overthere can level off low hp kiting. The amount of damage a damaging bard/caster would have to do to mobs chasing someone with low hp is more than the total hp mobs in Overthere have. However, for this same reason aggro must be cleared every so often by the damaging bard or caster in zones such as Dreadlands or Burning Wood because the mobs have so much hp that the damage dealer can actually overcome the super high threshold of aggro set by low-hp.

However, I believe low-hp, although maybe classic, is a ridiculous mechanic. If one bard has his train of mobs touch another bard's train and then goes low hp, the second bard's mobs will all get pulled away assuming they are the same mob type due to social aggro, or in your case Tolkien, your mobs run away from you.

Low-hp aggro is the reason why there are so many low level 50 bards; there is very little skill involved in leveling this fast way. I mean solo AE kiting is somewhat difficult and can be prone to screw ups. Low-hp is basically easy mode. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's important to understand how bards can steal mobs away or get people killed based on people's hp going below 20%.

[Trouble]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, low-hp aggro is quite insane. It seems to only affect mobs like level 30 (maybe 25+?). There is no way to pull a mob off someone that is low hp unless you really piss off the mob. By pissing off the mob I mean doing an exorbitant amount of damage/snaring. That is why people in Overthere can level off low hp kiting. The amount of damage a damaging bard/caster would have to do to mobs chasing someone with low hp is more than the total hp mobs in Overthere have. However, for this same reason aggro must be cleared every so often by the damaging bard or caster in zones such as Dreadlands or Burning Wood because the mobs have so much hp that the damage dealer can actually overcome the super high threshold of aggro set by low-hp.

However, I believe low-hp, although maybe classic, is a ridiculous mechanic. If one bard has his train of mobs touch another bard's train and then goes low hp, the second bard's mobs will all get pulled away assuming they are the same mob type due to social aggro, or in your case Tolkien, your mobs run away from you.

Low-hp aggro is the reason why there are so many low level 50 bards; there is very little skill involved in leveling this fast way. I mean solo AE kiting is somewhat difficult and can be prone to screw ups. Low-hp is basically easy mode. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's important to understand how bards can steal mobs away or get people killed based on people's hp going below 20%.

To elaborate a little bit- mobs under level 20 will not work for low-hp kiting. Also, you can pull mobs from a low hp bait in OT. Get a low 30s bard and have him try to kill some of the really high hp tigers before he gets aggro. It's a coin flip at best. It's not based on how much damage you do as much as it is based on how many times you've dotted the mob. The higher you get and the more damage your dots do, the more damage you can do to a mob before you peel it off your bait.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Trouble [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To elaborate a little bit- mobs under level 20 will not work for low-hp kiting. Also, you can pull mobs from a low hp bait in OT. Get a low 30s bard and have him try to kill some of the really high hp tigers before he gets aggro. It's a coin flip at best. It's not based on how much damage you do as much as it is based on how many times you've dotted the mob. The higher you get and the more damage your dots do, the more damage you can do to a mob before you peel it off your bait.

That sounds about right in terms of how many times you cast the spell. I've seen tigers turn on people that get resisted a lot.

Is there a hard rule of how many times a mob can be cast on by a person before it flips? Do certain spells/songs cause it to flip sooner due to creating more aggro?

I feel like these are questions that aren't ever really going to be answered.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahhhh! Zander you have solved an aggro mystery for me I think. On seafury island I have noticed that during charm kiting BOTH my pet and the mob it is fighting (when charm breaks) will sometimes start running away from me toward somewhere else. Then, after I chase them down, they will return. I'm guessing it's low HP aggro from someone else on the island who has passed through my pet/mob's aggro range at some point? Is low HP aggro really that broken?

It could be other aggro too. Like a chanter picks up minimal proximity aggro, then runs off into the distance and runes himself, that rune is a shitload of aggro. Heals, etc.