Drama

[soup]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I'd been there, I'd think leaving the zone voided the deal as well. If that's how enchanters solo that camp, that fits right into the definition of inability to hold a camp. It also sounds like they gave him the sword after this bitchfest.

Nice attempt to take a shot at me, totally original and clever! I'm sorry you feel so insecure about your own appearance. I've been good looking all of my life. I didn't even have acne as a teenager. Let me guess--short, pudgy, muddy brown eyes, bad skin, straight greasy hair? Sorry man. I'm sure you have some other good qualities... maybe you're really loyal to your friends or something?

Once again, back to acting like the rules dictate what is or isn't douche baggery.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once again, back to acting like the rules dictate what is or isn't douche baggery.

But it wasn't douche baggery for the enchanter to pull the rules out against the group who had wiped? I just don't understand why one side is more right than the other.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Here's what I get out of this:

1) Group can't hold camp and wipes.

2) Enchanter starts soloing camp.

3) Group comes back, angry with enchanter for taking camp, which is rightfully the enchanters at THIS POINT.

4) Enchanter threatens Dravyen that he will camp there all night if they don't let him have 1 more PH spawn, group forced to give in to ultimatum because it's the only option that yields them the camp anytime soon. (see the first screenshot the OP posted for this "deal", which was really an ultimatum.)

5) Enchanter zones because he can't hold camp. I don't care if that's how enchanters "gotta do it". OP left camp for whatever reason, which is the SAME REASON he was able to rightfully take the camp from the group when they left the camp, described in (3).

6) Now the camp belongs to the group. As Alawen said above, that deal/ultimatum is now void at this point because the OP no longer holds the camp.

7) Somehow, for some reason, after the OP tries to twist the camping rules in his favor in both instances, group still gives him the sword, presumably to avoid further drama even though the OP did not own the camp at the point described in (5).

8) OP owes the group back their sword for bullying them with an ultimatum, and then losing the camp back to them when he zoned for whatever reason because he was unable to hold the camp with his 5% health pet, just as he justified taking their camp when they were unable to hold the camp with their 0% health group members.

[Barkingturtle]

Why not just kill your 5% pet and charm a new one? Or mez/memblur? Anything seems better than zoning.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But it wasn't douche baggery for the enchanter to pull the rules out against the group who had wiped? I just don't understand why one side is more right than the other.

So when was the enchanter a douche bag? When he split a fully spawned camp? No, not there. Was it when a group comes up and tells him the camp he just split is theirs? No, wasn't there. Was it when he offered to give them the camp after the next king/PH spawn? Nope, that wasn't it. Was it when the other group AGREED to that offer? Nope. Was it when he clarity and hasted their group? Nope.

Not really seeing where he was a douche bag.

[guineapig]

What kills me is that Divinity members go above and beyond so often in this game yet the one time that some members merely follow the rules and go no further we are treated like monsters...

[soup]

I really don't understand why everyone thinks taking 30 seconds to zone out and in to a zone should just completely negate any work you've done splitting a camp and just make it a free for all to claim it.

So do you lose a camp if you kite mobs away if that's how you fight them? So then what is the arbitrary distance you can't exceed to keep the camp? Or how about the details of how you solo the camp isn't relevant as long as you do it in a timely manner?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really don't understand why everyone thinks taking 30 seconds to zone out and in to a zone should just completely negate any work you've done splitting a camp and just make it a free for all to claim it.

From http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653 which is the ruleset we have to mediate these kinds of disputes among ourselves:

1. Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp.

4. In order to hold a camp, the player or group must be able to demonstrate the ability to hold the camp without further help.

Enchanter had the claim to the camp after the group wiped due to these server rule. Enchanter did not have the claim to the camp after he zoned due to the SAME RULES.

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So do you lose a camp if you kite mobs away if that's how you fight them? So then what is the arbitrary distance you can't exceed to keep the camp? Or how about the details of how you solo the camp isn't relevant as long as you do it in a timely manner?

So then what is the arbitrary time duration you can't exceed to keep the camp?

In an outdoors setting, if you're kiting shit and you can't handle it and have to zone, you demonstrate an inability to hold the camp, so yes, you lose that camp. And based on the first rule quoted above, yes you probably should be kiting in the general vicinity of that camp to demonstrate your "presence".

Zoning is zoning. It is the end all and be all of leaving the camp. You not only left the camp because you couldn't keep it, you left the ZONE because you couldn't keep it. I think that's pretty damn black and white. You cannot argue you have a "presence" at any camp in the zone if you are NO LONGER IN THE ZONE.

[Agaron]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What kills me is that Divinity members go above and beyond so often in this game yet the one time that some members merely follow the rules and go no further we are treated like monsters...

See, now you're pulling the prestine card again. At least 5 if not all 6 of those names listed are new recruits, and I highly doubt you've watched them group in pug groups to see what they're like. The OP simply posted what a "dick" move they pulled, and then making a deal and breaking it is another "dick" move.

Here I'll highlight for you people unable to read.

Originally Posted by Shewz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, I just want to write this little story down.

Tonight I stumbled upon the Lguk King camp fully spawned and decided to camp it. I killed the kor shamans and the king PH and the roaming dar, as enchanters do.

Then Slappie, Sernity, Elisa, Nocte, Dravyen, and Autum show up, saying they wiped and that the camp was theirs.

I say, alright I'll give you the camp after just 1 king ph spawn. I figure, I broke the camp so I deserve the chance at just one ph. And they agree, except for Slappie who hassled me about it.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2aad6hj.jpg

And then the king spawns with a mithril two handed sword.

I start pacifying mobs, charming, generally soloing how an enchanter solos. I get a kor shaman down and then decide to zone to let me and my pet regen. I'm gone for all of 20 seconds, which I figure is okay since I'm clearly breaking the camp, and I had made a deal with their group.

I come back in and continue, and end up with the king sitting in the middle of the room, and my 5% hp pet left. I need to break charm and de-aggro the pet so that it can regen to full and fight king. Fact is, it's not possible to charm 1 froglok and kill both the shamans and the king all in a row. The pet has to be zoned so it can heal.

Again, I'm gone for all of 20 seconds. That's when they decide to kill my low-hp pet mob and steal the king.

It's pretty fucked up that they waited for me to single out the king before stealing it. Apparently Elisa was tracking me and waiting for me to slip up and zone.

Ensuing conversation
http://i45.tinypic.com/28iolxi.jpg

It's pretty fucked up that Slappie tried to pull that on me.

Anyways, Dravyen decides that I can roll on it against Autum. Of course, Sernity and Slappie want it to be 6 rolls versus mine, but that doesn't happen.

Autum wins and takes the sword. And then they graciously leave me the camp. (Hmm... wonder what they wanted? Oh right, they ninja'd it.) Of course, judging by how honorable their actions were before, it was pretty clear I wasn't going to get the sword even if I won the roll.

So, expect to be stabbed in the back if you strike an honest deal with Divinity. And please, don't pull the,"a couple bad apples" line, because when 6 of your members all are fine with pulling this, chances are a big chunk of the guild is slimy.

[soup]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653 which is the ruleset we have to mediate these kinds of disputes among ourselves:





Enchanter had the claim to the camp after the group wiped due to these server rule. Enchanter did not have the claim to the camp after he zoned due to the SAME RULES.



So then what is the arbitrary time duration you can't exceed to keep the camp?

In an outdoors setting, if you're kiting shit and you can't handle it and have to zone, you demonstrate an inability to hold the camp, so yes, you lose that camp. And based on the first rule quoted above, yes you probably should be kiting in the general vicinity of that camp to demonstrate your "presence".

Zoning is zoning. It is the end all and be all of leaving the camp. You not only left the camp because you couldn't keep it, you left the ZONE because you couldn't keep it. I think that's pretty damn black and white. You cannot argue you have a "presence" at any camp in the zone if you are NO LONGER IN THE ZONE.

It sounds like you don't even know WHY he zoned rofl

The enchanter doesn't zone because he cant hold the camp or needs to get some mob off him or whatever, it's because his charmed pet is low HP and by zoning it regens rapidly to full. It has nothing to do with an inability to hold the camp. It's only abouth efficiency. He could have sat there letting the mob slowly regen up while sitting at the camp, but that would take much longer, and he has people waiting in line who made a deal for the camp after him, so speeding it up helps everyone, right? Oh, guess not, because people are douche bags and think zoning is like going to another planet or something.

As far as the zoning argument, say I am camping Gynok in Befallen. Say I have just killed the PH a couple minutes ago, and the PH has 15 minutes until it respawns. Say someone asks if I can step outside to SOW them real quick. Would you be like "LOL YOU ZONED NOT YOUR CAMP ANYMORE!"?