Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[bcbrown]

No no no, you said you could name multiple camps that need a shaman, but haven't done so yet. What camps need a shaman?

Troxx never said there was any camps that need a cleric.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No no no, you said you could name multiple camps that need a shaman, but haven't done so yet. What camps need a shaman?

Troxx never said there was any camps that need a cleric.

I am not sure why you keep speaking for Troxx. He is able to speak for himself.

If Troxx concedes that there are no camps that need a Cleric, great! That is off the table. This is no longer a point we need to worry about. That is the question that was being asked, which he chose to dodge many times.

I have provided multiple camps where a Shaman would be better. In the case of WW Dragons, Enchanters and Clerics alone have a very hard time with them due to AoE dispell removing charm from the pets. The pets are the tanks and DPS, so when they get dispelled, you have up to three pets and a dragon attacking the group, depending on how many Enchanters there are.

Troxx has yet to provide an example camp for where a Cleric would be better than a Shaman. This is a simple question, but many Troxx rage posts later we are none the wiser. If Troxx's postion is so easy to prove, he should do so, instead of spamming the thread.

Troxx still cannot explain what a pocket character is either.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have provided multiple camps where a Shaman would be better.

And yet that's not what you claimed earlier:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can name multiple camps that need a Shaman.

If you're going to claim that there's multiple camps that need a shaman, it's insufficient to provide camps where a shaman would be better. Those are entirely different claims. I'm interested in your evidence for that earlier, stronger claim.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And yet that's not what you claimed earlier:



If you're going to claim that there's multiple camps that need a shaman, it's insufficient to provide camps where a shaman would be better. Those are entirely different claims. I'm interested in your evidence for that earlier, stronger claim.

As you can see, Bcbrown is more interested in playing word games. If you want to help Troxx, provide some evidence supporting Clerics being better than Shamans in this group composition. Everybody will learn something too!

I've made my postion clear multiple times already. Asking me to repeat myself over and over doesn't help your position.

You can have the last word if you want. It isn't helping Troxx's position, and whatever your position is.

As it stands, Troxx and Bcbrown cannot show why Clerics are better than Shamans for this scenario. It is simply their opinion, unsupported by facts.

Here are the oustanding questions Troxx is afraid to answer:

1. What camps are better with a Cleric instead of a Shaman in this four man caster group?

2. What are pocket characters, and why do you keep saying they can be any character?

If Troxx thinks Cleric is obviously better than Shaman, there is no reason for him to troll and spam the thread. He can just provide the evidence and prove me wrong.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, Bcbrown is more interested in playing word games. If you want to help Troxx, provide some evidence supporting Clerics being better than Shamans in this group composition. Everybody will learn something too!

I've made my postion clear multiple times already. Asking me to repeat myself over and over doesn't help your position.

So you admit that you cannot name any camps where a shaman is necessary. Thanks, that's all I was curious about.

[cyxthryth]

If you're interested in EVIDENCE from DSM to support his claims, do not hold your breath. He will only continue to demand evidence of others, and point to irrelevant/invalid things he has posted/claimed as if they are relevant/valid (when they are clearly not).

DSM, you have once again been backed into a corner by your own quotes.
You claimed you could name multiple camps that need a Shaman.
You have provided zero evidence to support that claim, therefore the claim is simply baseless - and likely untrue. The ball is in your court if you would like to provide evidence to support your claim. Or you could admit you were wrong.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's ok to admit you were wrong sometimes.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Shamans can't complete heal
-Shamans can't buff the cleric/druid line of HP and don't have symbol
-Shamans can't stun charm breaks
-Shamans are not really effective blast healers

... and when shit hits the fan (and it will with nasty charm pets)

-Shaman's can't rez

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-Shamans can't complete heal
-Shamans can't buff the cleric/druid line of HP and don't have symbol
-Shamans can't stun charm breaks
-Shamans are not really effective blast healers

... and when shit hits the fan (and it will with nasty charm pets)

-Shaman's can't rez

This is very easy to rebut.

1. Complete Heal - Troxx has admitted there are no camps where Clerics are necessary for this specific thread's restrictions. This means CH is also not necessary for this specific group composition. Shamans can Torpor tank. This means the pet's aren't taking a lot of damage, and wouldn't normally need a CH. Shamans can maintain their mana via Torpor for a long time, but Clerics will burn though mana if they need to CH multiple times in succession. Cloth casters also don't have a lot of HP. Torpor can be more mana efficient than CH when healing players with low max HP.

2. Buffs - Troxx has admitted there are no camps where Clerics are necessary for this specific thread's restrictions. This means you don't need the extra HP to survive. Torpor Shamans can keep the group alive very well without these buffs. Shamans have buffs that Clerics can't provide too. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is a powerful trio that doesn't need Cleric buffs, and does very well.

3. Stun - Two Enchanters will have the stuns covered. Shamans have other tools to help on a bad break too. Slow, Torpor, AoE Slow, and root are all effective at keeping the party alive. It is ironic that Troxx keeps undermining his own point about stuns by claiming "redundant" spells are bad.

4. Blast Healing - Troxx has admitted there are no camps where Clerics are necessary for this specific thread's restrictions. I am not sure where he thinks the blast healing would be something people just can't live without. In the case of the party getting AoE'd, Shamans can maintain their mana longer than a Cleric, and while standing. They can Torpor group members as needed to keep them up. A cloth caster group isn't meleeing, so the slow doesn't matter.

5. Res - Pocket Cleric or a Necromancer as one of the four classes have res covered. If you are dying a lot, focus on improving your skill. That will reduce the need for reses. Ideally needing res becomes a rare occurence. Otherwise camping items and XPIng is going to be tough. OP did not say pocket clerics are prohibited, and they are a common practice. Trying to fight against pocket clerics simply doesn't make sense.

[bcbrown]

You keep grading Cleric against whether or not it's necessary while grading Shaman against whether or not it's helpful.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You keep grading Cleric against whether or not it's necessary while grading Shaman against whether or not it's helpful.

This shows you haven't read my post. Please read it again. You are either trolling, or missed the point entirely.

Ideally you should actually explain your position and counter my points, instead of constantly dodging. It doesn't make you look good.