Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[fortior]

There's also no way to add more utility to any 3 man caster/priest group than by adding a Druid. Ports alone are massive, potg is mana regen, long snare on charm pets makes breaks a breeze, and damage shield is insane dps on unslowed mobs. If you want beef you add a chanter, if you want heals you add a cleric, if you want utility you add a druid. No other class even registers.

Saying you can just grab a dial-a-port in your non-druid 4 man is essentially the same as saying you can just get outside buffs from a shaman. Any 4 man needs a porter or you're behind from the very start

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's also no way to add more utility to any 3 man caster/priest group than by adding a Druid. Ports alone are massive, potg is mana regen, long snare on charm pets makes breaks a breeze, and damage shield is insane dps on unslowed mobs. If you want beef you add a chanter, if you want heals you add a cleric, if you want utility you add a druid. No other class even registers.

Saying you can just grab a dial-a-port in your non-druid 4 man is essentially the same as saying you can just get outside buffs from a shaman. Any 4 man needs a porter or you're behind from the very start

I am just stating the reality of the server. You generally aren't doing a ton of porting in a single play session, and other players can easily cover that (i.e. dial-a-port). It's not really a good idea to try and camp multiple things across the world, as someone can just take the camp when you are away hehe.

A Shaman is better in more combat situations than a Druid, which is why they can solo more things than a Druid.

A Necro/Shaman combo is twitching more mana to your Enchanters than PoTG. PoTG isn't a necessary buff, it's a nice to have. Torpor + Regen + Twitch is a great combo.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am just stating the reality of the server. You generally aren't doing a ton of porting in a single play session, and other players can easily cover that (i.e. dial-a-port). It's not really a good idea to try and camp multiple things across the world, as someone can just take the camp when you are away hehe.

A Shaman is better in more combat situations than a Druid, which is why they can solo more things than a Druid.

A Necro/Shaman combo is twitching more mana to your Enchanters than PoTG. PoTG isn't a necessary buff, it's a nice to have. Torpor + Regen + Twitch is a great combo.

This is only valid using a definition of 'soloing' which is specifically tuned to benefit shamans. In an actual solo situation, a shaman can't solo crypt in sebilis because a rogue has to let them in. That's actual soloing. No outside help. None of this 'other people can hold me up to the net, and then I can dunk in the ball' stuff.

Saying you can just get a dial-a-port to move your 4 man group around Norrath is basically the same as saying you can just get clarity from a nearby enchanter. No druid or wizard in your 4 man = your 4 man walks. It's the only way to fairly compare class makeups.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is only valid using a definition of 'soloing' which is specifically tuned to benefit shamans. In an actual solo situation, a shaman can't solo crypt in sebilis because a rogue has to let them in.

Saying you can just get a dial-a-port to move your 4 man group around Norrath is basically the same as saying you can just get clarity from a nearby enchanter. No druid or wizard in your 4 man = your 4 man walks. It's the only way to fairly compare class makeups.

Except it isn't, because you are refreshing Clarity every 30 minutes. You aren't porting every 30 minutes. If you are dungeon crawling you lose your progress if you teleport out, and camping multiple spawns around the game is risky because you can kill a placeholder and come back to the camp being taken.

For your rogue example, you can get around locked doors without a rogue while soloing. But I am not sure what that has to do with Druids vs. Shamans, because a Druid can't lockpick either. I don't understand the analogy.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most group content that 3-4 players can do is already soloable by Enchanters or Shamans. Having one of each in your group means you can basically have a single player solo a bad situation if multiple problems are occurring simultaneously. A Cleric is less able to handle an unstunnable mob beating them in the face, for example.

A shaman can't help in a bad situation if they're several floors away root rotting 4-6 mobs.

I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that enc/enc/clr/druid is the way to go. Shaman haste/slow is fully covered by two enchanters and dots don't help when engaging group content that dies quickly. I'm glad DSM can find groups that let him go off on his own and root rot stuff, but I find the whole concept pretty repulsive. Druid adds snares, ports, roots, the Skin Like line, group regen, potg at 60, and outdoors shenanigans. But really, I think if you start with a pair of enchanters, adding any combination of druid/necro/cleric will lead to a great group.

My highest level character is 45, though, so my perspective is from a leveling/adventuring group, not from someone who's spent a decade at level 60 with raid gear.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Necro/Shaman combo is twitching more mana to your Enchanters than PoTG. PoTG isn't a necessary buff, it's a nice to have. Torpor + Regen + Twitch is a great combo.

I got to group with a necro on my shaman for the first time yesterday, and Regen + Twitch combined with canni + Pact of Shadow really is amazing.

[fortior]

You want rezzes, you want paci, you want ports, and you want dps. Shamans add literally nothing to a group that's that stacked with pure dungeon crashing power. It's a class for people who want to solo the same way in every situation, and if their one trick doesn't work they can't do the camp. Shaman is the class you bring to a group when you're carrying melees.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A shaman can't help in a bad situation if they're several floors away root rotting 4-6 mobs.

I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that enc/enc/clr/druid is the way to go. Shaman haste/slow is fully covered by two enchanters and dots don't help when engaging group content that dies quickly. I'm glad DSM can find groups that let him go off on his own and root rot stuff, but I find the whole concept pretty repulsive. Druid adds snares, ports, roots, the Skin Like line, group regen, potg at 60, and outdoors shenanigans. But really, I think if you start with a pair of enchanters, adding any combination of druid/necro/cleric will lead to a great group.

My highest level character is 45, though, so my perspective is from a leveling/adventuring group, not from someone who's spent a decade at level 60 with raid gear.

Typically you do root/rotting in a group if the content is trivial enough to where you aren't going to be running into problems that require the group to be together. In a area like the entrance to Velks, Shamans and Enchanters are going to be destroying the place already. The only bad situation you are going to run into is if another player trains you, but that can wipe a party regardless of whether they are together or not.

With 2 Enchanters you simply don't need more DPS, so that is why the Mage is redundant. A Shaman is going to be doing more in a group than a Druid, unless you are trying to hold a bunch of camps around the world simultaneously, which isn't a good idea.

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want rezzes, you want paci, you want ports, and you want dps. Shamans add literally nothing to a group that's that stacked with pure dungeon crashing power. It's a class for people who want to solo the same way in every situation, and if their one trick doesn't work they can't do the camp. Shaman is the class you bring to a group when you're carrying melees.

You simply don't understand Shamans or group dynamics enough if you think a Shaman offers nothing. There is a reason why Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is an extremely strong trio.

[fortior]

With 2 enchanters, a cleric, and a druid, you could break any 2 camps + a chardok camp as a 4 or 3 man (3 man after leaving ench #1 at the first broken camp), and leave the druid + cleric at the easier chardok camp with a chokidai pet. You'd have rezzes, ports, and aego + potg on both enchanters. Everyone playing p99 in the real world knows being able to quickly get to a camp is invaluable.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You simply don't understand Shamans or group dynamics enough if you think a Shaman offers nothing. There is a reason why Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is an extremely strong trio.

The shaman and monk in this example are being carried by the enchanter, I'm sorry you had to find out this way.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With 2 Enchanters you simply don't need more DPS, so that is why the Mage is redundant. A Shaman is going to be doing more in a group than a Druid, unless you are trying to hold a bunch of camps around the world simultaneously, which isn't a good idea.

I never mentioned mage. I play both a druid and a shaman (to the 40s) and I disagree with you. That's alright. It's okay to have different opinions.