Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[cd288]

A year later and this argument is still going with DSM? What is wrong with you people

[Toxigen]

we're making 400 boys

[Dritzle]

People sleep on druids but enchx2, necro, druid would be fun

[7thGate]

This is actually making me kind of curious about how well Shaman/Ench/Ench/Cleric could handle Puppet show. There's some possible advantages for a Shaman in comp there:

--Shaman gives easy ability to solo Geb, so you can have one member prep multiple puppets for you without having to waste time acquiring a pet to start the cycle. (I think enchanter probably has more trouble just popping on and soloing Geb efficiently?)
--Shaman slow is effectively a 20% damage reduction, which actually matters if your plan is to spawn 3-4 puppets and tank them all concurrently
--Shaman can be pretty tanky with good gear and brings additional buffing. AC matters for this a lot but BIS shaman can probably tank 3 or 4 puppets concurrently with CH cleric backup.
--Summoning means you can't do it with just pets as easily
--Targets have so much HP shaman is efficient DPS with dots and Avatar on pets
EDIT: Malo and Malosini help reduce pet breaks and speed debuffing.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Dritzle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People sleep on druids but enchx2, necro, druid would be fun

id like to see a mage / enc / necro / druid in spots w/ animals - 4x different pets just goin ham

unfortunately the only spot 50+ for this is ...chardok.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

id like to see a mage / enc / necro / druid in spots w/ animals - 4x different pets just goin ham

unfortunately the only spot 50+ for this is ...chardok.

What about Kael? Bvellos + Wolf pet would be a ton of very tanky DPS.

[Dritzle]

Kael, Chardok, mischief, sirens come to mind. SG could get pretty saucy with 4 pets. Speaking of PoM, from what I've seen, you're right about the puppet show 7thgate - shaman is key to a smooth puppet show

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have data on "success rate"

I wasn't talking about "data", just a subjective sense of how often groups acquiesce to this idea you've been talking about. Sounds like you're saying there's rarely ever any pushback.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can do that independant of what the group is doing.

Here's what I'm really curious about. Why group at all if you're going to be completely independent? What's the benefit?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My position is Shaman/Enchanter/Monk, with the fourth member being flexible. Due to the specific restriction of no melee classes, that changes the equation a bit.

I said Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman or Enchanter/Enchanter/Shaman/Necro in my original post on this thread. This is because 2x Enchanters provide the DPS, and the Shaman + Cleric supply enough utility and mitigation to keep the Enchanters going without a hitch.

I guess I'm confused then, because earlier you said this:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue here is you don't understand enough about the game to realize a 4 man group is not a very good number on P99. Most people prefer trios because you don't really expand the amount of content you can do with 4 people, and loot splits better 3 ways. You generally want 5-6 people for the harder single group content.

If a fourth member doesn't expand what content you can do, 2 chanters are sufficient DPS (I understand and accept your argument that killing Fungi King in 90s vs 72s or whatever is pretty irrelevant), and loot splits better 3 ways, aren't you advocating that the fourth member is pretty irrelevant?

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or trying to score debate points, just trying to understand your position.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is actually making me kind of curious about how well Shaman/Ench/Ench/Cleric could handle Puppet show. There's some possible advantages for a Shaman in comp there:

--Shaman gives easy ability to solo Geb, so you can have one member prep multiple puppets for you without having to waste time acquiring a pet to start the cycle. (I think enchanter probably has more trouble just popping on and soloing Geb efficiently?)
--Shaman slow is effectively a 20% damage reduction, which actually matters if your plan is to spawn 3-4 puppets and tank them all concurrently
--Shaman can be pretty tanky with good gear and brings additional buffing. AC matters for this a lot but BIS shaman can probably tank 3 or 4 puppets concurrently with CH cleric backup.
--Summoning means you can't do it with just pets as easily
--Targets have so much HP shaman is efficient DPS with dots and Avatar on pets
EDIT: Malo and Malosini help reduce pet breaks and speed debuffing.

I don't think anyone would argue against that. The original argument going back to last year was that Shamans do better DPS than, say, a Charmed pet which is why they'd be better in the group. Which is just not correct over time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone would argue against that. The original argument going back to last year was that Shamans do better DPS than, say, a Charmed pet which is why they'd be better in the group. Which is just not correct over time.

I challenge you to show me where I said that.

I appreciate you brought this up, because it simply shows how strawmen ruined this thread. That was the intent of course. When people got mad that they couldn't win with facts and logic, they decided to switch tactics and troll.

It amazes me that you have 100 replies in this thread and still know nothing about it since that is what you thought I was arguing.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's what I'm really curious about. Why group at all if you're going to be completely independent? What's the benefit?

More experience per hour. It's really that simple. XP groups are often easy and grindy, so there isn't always a need to do it together. Helping other people gain experience and talking in group chat is fun by itself.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a fourth member doesn't expand what content you can do, 2 chanters are sufficient DPS (I understand and accept your argument that killing Fungi King in 90s vs 72s or whatever is pretty irrelevant), and loot splits better 3 ways, aren't you advocating that the fourth member is pretty irrelevant?

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or trying to score debate points, just trying to understand your position.

Realistically the fourth member would be irrelevant from my experience. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk can handle basically any camp that a trio would want to do, and I can't think of many (if any) camps that are doable with 4 people specifically instead of 3.

However, this is a question about a four man group. I don't think a group of four friends is going to drop down to a trio so they can split the loot better. Therefore, I am not going to discourage OP from abandoning one of their friends.

Instead, I am suggesting you take the base concept of a powerhouse trio like Shaman/Enchanter/Monk, and add a fourth member. With the additional restriction of caster/priest only, there are a few logical choices. Shaman/Enchanter/Necromancer is the closest analogy, and also gives you twitch + resurrection. Enchanters are often comfortable doing the pulling, so Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter works fine too.

Both of these combinations hit 200 DPS, which is probably the best breakpoint for a trio. Just about every named mob a trio can kill is dying in less than 2 minutes. Most trash mobs are dying in 20-40 seconds.

Mobs killable by 3-4 players are mostly slowable and do not out-DPS Torpor + Slow. CH is rarely needed in this scenario. This is especially true since this group has the restriction of no Warriors, so you don't have the option to CH a Warrior discing.

Cleric is a strong choice for the fourth member, since this trio doesn't really need more DPS. But you could fit in just about any class. The only reason why I say putting a Druid in this group isn't a good idea is because people are saying they want to replace the Shaman with the Druid. It simply doesn't make sense to do so. Shamans can handle more content than a Druid, so you are simply sacrificing a broader range of camps for port convenience. As long as the server populations remain healthy, you shouldn't be too worried about finding a port.