Stop the Socking

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having fully buffed forces camped out is just another form of socking Daldaen, we moved it from the spawn point, to the zoneline, to the next zone over, to the login screen. It doesn't change anything.

Full FFA repop means you need to mobilize unless you plan on putting fully buffed raid forces at 9 world spawn locations (Seb, KC, EJ, Skyfire, TD, Feerott, Perma, WC, SolB)

I agree 100% Chest.

--in before someone makes a sig of this--

However it sounds like FFA repops are off the table. And in an environment of adults where we must compromise, sometimes things that we want the most are taken off the table so we must make do with what is available.

• 2 Foot Racers, 1 Tracker. Allow for up to 6 in zone when mob spawns (allowing for camp outs, buffing, and the random app or alt EXPing in KC or SEB etc. But preventing full poopsocks)
• Designated starting areas. I will make a post about this (sorry I didn't last night worked til midnight)
• SoW only on racers. No Selos, Cheetah (looking at you Warrior Sky shoulders), wolf form or spirit of scale.
• Foot racers take a screenshot right after the race starts or fraps their race if there is a concern of someone not following the rules
• Any guild who gets FTE on a character not in the above screenshots, is suspended for 1 week first offense, more serious suspensions if repeat offenses.
• No poopsocking on other sides of zones.

In this compromise, everyone agrees to stop CotHing which most everyone hates. Everyone agrees to stop the full on poopsocks (yes, they are moved to the login screen but it does not require you sit at your computer for 16 hours... You can respond to a batphone)

After a test period of this, GMs should examine it, realize we for once were able to be adults and agree. Stop the poopsocking (limiting it to some trackers), and then from this agree to reduce Variance to a small window of 30-60minutes.

In this compromise:

Class R is conceding to stay with a C/R/FFA rotation which seems to be somewhat disliked by R. Also Class R agrees to stop CotH ducking which is hated by Class C. All other proposals would net R more mobs through default and less to Class C.
Class C is conceding to stop the poopsocking, allow for a lower barrier of entry, and much lower variance times (which does benefit them, however they are the main force that is willing to track for 16 hour windows... When the windows are an hour there will be more competition and it will likely lose them FFA targets... But this is a compromise they are willing to make based off what I've read here)

The gains:

No one has to CotH duck again
No one has to poopsock to get targets
Variance reduced means people don't have to waste entire days waiting to contest a mob. They can camp a toon out at night and the next morning between 8-9 wait for a batphone and hope to kill it. If they get it great, if not they can move their room to another camp or go on a group/exp/farm/TS etc. Without hanging up their toons for long periods of time
Class R has a higher chance of FFA targets with smaller variance
Class C gets more competition to contest against in terms they are already used to and accept (foot racing)


The take aways from this, variance MUST be reduced to see any benefit to Class R guilds who want to join the FFA scene but don't want to sit around for 16 hours. Everyone MUST agree to stop poopsocking for the aforementioned variance reduction to be on the table. Everyone MUST agree to play by the rules i listed and not petition quest, otherwise again, variance reduction off the table.

This benefits everyone in some way or another. Whether you get chances at mobs without having to sock for 16 hours or getting 15 hours that you would've soent socking, back and allow you to do other more productive/fun things with your time while still being able to compete.

Please, agree to this. Understand both sides are making concessions, and it leads to both being better off because of it.

GMs - Please see the effort we are trying to put forth. Let us trial this. And see how we reduce socking and have a more civil raid scene. Give us a more classic variance (see very very small), and let us all live together in harmony.

Amen.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having fully buffed forces camped out is just another form of socking Daldaen, we moved it from the spawn point, to the zoneline, to the next zone over, to the login screen. It doesn't change anything.

Actually it does, because somewhat better is still a lot better then maintaining the current state. It's also that simplified/defeatist stance which continually keeps in-game poopsocks alive and well, and why we'll never be able to convince the GM's to lower variance down to a level more favorable for everybody.

You are just incapable of seeing that due to the fact that it still won't do anything to serve your own ultimate agenda....separation from having to compete against Class C guilds in hopes of getting more of the merbs you want.

But like i guessed, nothing new to see here.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it does, because somewhat better is still a lot better then maintaining the current state. It's also that simplified/defeatist stance which continually keeps in-game poopsocks alive and well, and why we'll never be able to convince the GM's to lower variance down to a level more favorable for everybody.

You are just incapable of seeing that due to the fact that it still won't do anything to serve your own ultimate agenda....separation from having to compete against Class C guilds in hopes of getting more of the merbs you want.

But like i guessed, nothing new to see here.

I have a proposal, my platform hasn't changed. If you got on board IB would probably be the only guild that hasn't spoken up. If we all agreed we might be able to reduce the variance overall.

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits. I would say that class R would entirely support this plan and it would completely eliminate socking, not just modify the current rules which would continue the current style of raiding that's been prevalent for almost 5 years.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a proposal, my platform hasn't changed. If you got on board IB would probably be the only guild that hasn't spoken up. If we all agreed we might be able to reduce the variance overall.

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits. I would say that class R would entirely support this plan and it would completely eliminate socking, not just modify the current rules which would continue the current style of raiding that's been prevalent for almost 5 years.

Again, nothing new to see there.

But hey, if that helps Daldaen better understand why he's wasting his time/efforts here, at least somebody can walk away from this 60 page thread a winner.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits.

Not happening. Once you get the idea of that ever coming to fruition out of your head, then you'll be in a better place to come up with a new proposal that we can actually discuss.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a proposal, my platform hasn't changed. If you got on board IB would probably be the only guild that hasn't spoken up. If we all agreed we might be able to reduce the variance overall.

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits. I would say that class R would entirely support this plan and it would completely eliminate socking, not just modify the current rules which would continue the current style of raiding that's been prevalent for almost 5 years.

If the main objection to this is Class C getting fewer mobs (dunno if that's true), why not tweak it a bit? For example, a 3 mob bag limit for Class C guilds on FFA repops. I'd expect that a repop during high server population times would be highly contested with the smaller Class R guilds able to take a legit shot at a target and the Class C and large Class R guilds having to prioritize and maybe not fill their bags, while off-peak repops would favor the larger guilds (Class C, Taken, BDA, ??) and guilds that have different timezone presence (Europa, ??).

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it does, because somewhat better is still a lot better then maintaining the current state. It's also that simplified/defeatist stance which continually keeps in-game poopsocks alive and well, and why we'll never be able to convince the GM's to lower variance down to a level more favorable for everybody.

You are just incapable of seeing that due to the fact that it still won't do anything to serve your own ultimate agenda....separation from having to compete against Class C guilds in hopes of getting more of the merbs you want.

But like i guessed, nothing new to see here.

The issue with this is that there is typically a lot of momentum required to make even the smallest change, so it's sort of wasteful to try to build up that momentum toward a change that someone feels will only be a band-aid. Would decreased variance somewhat alleviate some of the issues in raiding? Maybe. But in and of itself, for some people it may not be a worthy end-goal toward which to direct momentum.

At any given point, it always seems that the status quo will not be changed, but inevitably, with enough people putting momentum, it does get changed, in spite of what those in control may have said. For some people, it's probably worth maintaining the raid change momentum behind the "R/C , repops FFA" idea at the risk of getting nothing, since the thing being risked may not really be all that important and may not at all come close to the type of raiding / competition they envision. Directing that momentum to make a largely inconsequential change in their eyes is wasteful since it is hard to build that momentum up in the first place.

[thieros]

Equip every raid mob with CT like DT random for anyone in zone including trackers. whoever the mob spawns and DT's is the guild with FTE. From there they have 5 minutes to launch an attempt. Failure = clean agro list/reset. Upon reset, another DT random selector fires off to choose a second FTE guild. Boom

[Erati]

Originally Posted by thieros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Equip every raid mob with CT like DT random for anyone in zone including trackers. whoever the mob spawns and DT's is the guild with FTE. From there they have 5 minutes to launch an attempt. Failure = clean agro list/reset. Upon reset, another DT random selector fires off to choose a second FTE guild. Boom

so the people with IP exemptions and a second computer can track all day !

[khanable]

No one stops poopsocking. No one.

It's a way of life - if people want something, they are going to wait for it.

Abolishing or reducing variance will just contain poopsocking in a more manageable time slot. Please staff, help us poopsock responsibly.

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