Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[slappytwotoes]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

absolutely not! i think simulated patch days (full repops) are a truly great idea that will benefit a very high majority of players. im pretty certain Nilbog and Rogean feel the same way based off last weeks staff meeting. but there are still some details we would like to iron out internally before we make any final decisions on it.

and you'd be surprised what the "peasants" are ready for, everybody has a breaking point, even the "peasants"

Brace yourselves > Simulated patch days are coming!

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

theres more than one way to skin a cat

I had a boss that used that analogy all the time...
Just going to say... even though I don't like cats...that is a terrible analogy!

I'm one of those peace loving hippie types. I like harmony. I don't like conflict. I attempt peaceful resolution all can agree to.

If there isn't one, I can fight for what I want. Though, I don't think anyone has to worry about me yet.....

I am totally against GM intervention.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm afraid that's not strictly true. The argument for a God in RL is not proven and possibly never can be. But in p1999 s/he exists and it is unequivocally undeniable.

It is not the king that makes the framework of rules by which we govern ourself in this universe, it is God.

are you implying the staff = gods? because they dont. and i can guarantee you than Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, and the others do not want players killing any high end raid mobs.
its more like
gods = gods,
GMs/staff = different levels of law enforcement,
players = "citizens"

the staff has no plans or desire to dictate the raid scene to the players. it will be what you make it.

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had a boss that used that analogy all the time...
Just going to say... even though I don't like cats...that is a terrible analogy!

I'm one of those peace loving hippie types. I like harmony. I don't like conflict. I attempt peaceful resolution all can agree to.

If there isn't one, I can fight for what I want. Though, I don't think anyone has to worry about me yet.....

I am totally against GM intervention.

fwiw, i cant stand cats either. Luclin would have been sexier with dog people imo.
oh, and i am also totally against GM intervention [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

are you implying the staff = gods? because they dont. and i can guarantee you than Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, and the others do not want players killing any high end raid mobs.
its more like
gods = gods,
GMs/staff = different levels of law enforcement,
players = "citizens"

the staff has no plans or desire to dictate the raid scene to the players. it will be what you make it.

Yep I'm saying exactly that. Staff are the gods and they lay down the law (and enforce it) hey I didn't like your analogy but ran with it. Your explanation above does not explain where the laws come from.

Still don't see why you are so against, actually no that's not the right words but rather not more positive for the general idea that the peasants (small guilds/casuals) should once in a bluemoon have a shot at some bugger raid targets - the top guilds still have their virtual monopoly/competition/namecalling-contest while the small guys get to see something more of the game.

win win imo.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and im very sorry to hear that, but my server and MANY OTHERS did not have a rotation (see how that straw man argument fails?), and only time will tell if the players are "mature" enough to agree to something like that. but MOST servers, did not in fact have a rotation, because most players did not want a rotation or could not agree to a rotation. honestly i feel bad for people whose entire raid experience is based on non competitive rotations. that said, its completely up to the players to decide and then work out how they will handle raid mobs.

look, let me try another approach. lets say we all live in a kingdom, and for whatever reason you and a few people decide that the King is a piece of shit, and that his laws are garbage. well, it would be next to impossible to simply start your own kingdom, and make your own rules, because the true king would have you all beheaded. first you must kill the king by whatever means required. and then after the king has been killed by the usurpers, and they become the new kings, they get to set the new rules for the kingdom.

basically trying to do anything different in the raid scene requires 1 of 2 things to happen. either 1) the King agrees with you and your ideas. or 2) you must kill the king.

and it does not appear the king agrees, so you're down to option 2.

And what if God decrees the peasants should have their day in the sun? It really wouldn't take anything away from the king's ability to continue to lead his selfish and debauched lifestyle.

It's just not making sense why God would not find such a small request beneficial to the kingdom as a whole.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And what if God decrees the peasants should have their day in the sun? It really wouldn't take anything away from the king's ability to continue to lead his selfish and debauched lifestyle.

It's just not making sense why God would not find such a small request beneficial to the kingdom as a whole.

its called free will

because just like in RL, God has never come down from the heavens to dictate how we as people do things. it directly contradicts free will. Kings govern men, and gods inspire men.

thats the difference

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sounds like a "go play on red99" post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm sorry u saw it that way. when u have a few minutes, go look up "metaphor". there's a whole new world of vocabulary waiting for you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

essentially it means you follow the top guilds' way of doing things, or, you remove them as the top guild. it's happened multiple times on this server. contrary to popular belief, TMO was not always at or even near the top of the pecking order.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its called free will

because just like in RL, God has never come down from the heavens to dictate how we as people do things. it directly contradicts free will. Kings govern men, and gods inspire men.

thats the difference

I'm afraid that's not strictly true. The argument for a God in RL is not proven and possibly never can be. But in p1999 s/he exists and it is unequivocally undeniable.

It is not the king that makes the framework of rules by which we govern ourself in this universe, it is God.

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its called free will

because just like in RL, God has never come down from the heavens to dictate how we as people do things. it directly contradicts free will. Kings govern men, and gods inspire men.

thats the difference

No, the difference is that a god's power is not real. However the power u(and others) hold on this server is very real. It is completely possible for you/staff to intervene and fix this situation. But instead you choose to sit back and watch as if you are impotent to the "free will." bad analogy is bad.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the staff has no plans or desire to dictate the raid scene to the players. it will be what you make it.

You expect way too much from people if you think this is possible. The current raiding scene can't get along in the simplest of matters. What makes you think adding more people will help?

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

If this were reality we were talking about, I'd agree with you 100%, you cannot have it both ways. But this is a game, in which reality does not apply. It is completely possible for everyone to have it both ways. All it takes is for the staff to step in and endorse a new rule set. The variance was not imposed on this server since it's inception. The GM's made a precedence and intervened, altered the rule set. Why is it out of the question now? What has changed?

I have read the entire thread now. Now can we converse ? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I promise I wont bite, just express some ideas I feel would benefit most the people on this server.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

look, let me try another approach. lets say we all live in a kingdom, and for whatever reason you and a few people decide that the King is a piece of shit, and that his laws are garbage. well, it would be next to impossible to simply start your own kingdom, and make your own rules, because the true king would have you all beheaded. first you must kill the king by whatever means required. and then after the king has been killed by the usurpers, and they become the new kings, they get to set the new rules for the kingdom.

sounds like a "go play on red99" post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and im very sorry to hear that, but my server and MANY OTHERS did not have a rotation (see how that straw man argument fails?), and only time will tell if the players are "mature" enough to agree to something like that. but MOST servers, did not in fact have a rotation, because most players did not want a rotation or could not agree to a rotation. honestly i feel bad for people whose entire raid experience is based on non competitive rotations. that said, its completely up to the players to decide and then work out how they will handle raid mobs.

look, let me try another approach. lets say we all live in a kingdom, and for whatever reason you and a few people decide that the King is a piece of shit, and that his laws are garbage. well, it would be next to impossible to simply start your own kingdom, and make your own rules, because the true king would have you all beheaded. first you must kill the king by whatever means required. and then after the king has been killed by the usurpers, and they become the new kings, they get to set the new rules for the kingdom.

basically trying to do anything different in the raid scene requires 1 of 2 things to happen. either 1) the King agrees with you and your ideas. or 2) you must kill the king.

and it does not appear the king agrees, so you're down to option 2.

The king needs the people though. The people don't need the king and the King needs to remember that.