Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Enchanters weren't even a DPS class on live. They are the best DPS class here.

Under anyone's definition of "reflecting what the class was on live", it's painfully obvious P99 doesn't reflect it ... to anyone who actually played on live back then at least.

Again, it's like saying Bards were AoEing 50+ mobs in OT and not letting anyone else XP on live ... or saying that they would have, if they weren't so stupid back then. They weren't stupid, and they weren't monopolizing OT: whatever classic evidence everyone may have presented to say "Bards can totally AoE 50+ mobs", a critical detail was missing, because it absolutely was not classic.

And Bards on P99 DID get nerfed to a 25-mob maximum!

Meanwhile, Enchanters Charm has remained untouched!

[Mushman]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can talk about how OP Enchanters are or not all we want. The point is, they reflect what the class was on live. The goal of the server is to try and reflect how each class and mechanic was on live during the classic era. The point of the server is not to say "Wellllll achhhtually Enchanters were OP and they were never balanced but in my opinion they should have been so we should arbitrarily nerf them here because of that!"

If we want to make that the standard, then I guess we better open up like a million other things for peoples' personal opinions to be used to modify. For example, I think hybrids having snap aggro is cheesey and cheap and holding aggro as a tank should be more difficult, so nerf that please. What about Shamans and Canni; that's essentially a manastone-like ability and the devs stopped that from dropping and limited it to old world only, so Canni should either be removed or limited to old world only please. What about Rangers; AAs were implemented in later expansions to make them much better because the devs thought they were too weak from a balance perspective in the classic era, so add those changes to Rangers please since the standard is now what the devs did later on or what we think they would have done. What about Iksar regen and AC boost; back in the day there weren't nearly as many Iksars but sooo many people roll Iksar now to min/max for the relevant classes, so nerf Iksars please to create more of a "classic atmosphere."

It's just the dumbest argument I've seen on these forums in a long time and the only reason people are making it is because they're mad they can't find any legitimate evidence to try and force a change.

Noone is asking for a standard of altering the game. We're talking specifically about how charming as it is right now changes the whole landscape of the game into something that doesn't even resemble classic EQ. A dungeon split into enchanter/ enchanter support camp 1/2/3. It's a charm centric PvE environment in most places of value, which just is not classic. Did not happen = not classic.

If all of your hypothetical proposed nerfs were done, it wouldn't come close to changing the environment the way charmquest negatively affects the game.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can talk about how OP Enchanters are or not all we want. The point is, they reflect what the class was on live. The goal of the server is to try and reflect how each class and mechanic was on live during the classic era. The point of the server is not to say "Wellllll achhhtually Enchanters were OP and they were never balanced but in my opinion they should have been so we should arbitrarily nerf them here because of that!"

If we want to make that the standard, then I guess we better open up like a million other things for peoples' personal opinions to be used to modify. For example, I think hybrids having snap aggro is cheesey and cheap and holding aggro as a tank should be more difficult, so nerf that please. What about Shamans and Canni; that's essentially a manastone-like ability and the devs stopped that from dropping and limited it to old world only, so Canni should either be removed or limited to old world only please. What about Rangers; AAs were implemented in later expansions to make them much better because the devs thought they were too weak from a balance perspective in the classic era, so add those changes to Rangers please since the standard is now what the devs did later on or what we think they would have done. What about Iksar regen and AC boost; back in the day there weren't nearly as many Iksars but sooo many people roll Iksar now to min/max for the relevant classes, so nerf Iksars please to create more of a "classic atmosphere."

It is now completely clear, considering the things that you have just compared Charm to, that you are either new to P99, oblivious to the effect of Charm, or have a personal agenda.

This has nothing to do with personal opinions, this is about facts. Facts like math. That this is a group centric game, and Enchanters DPS equates up to SEVERAL party members, making grouping a huge loss of EXP/hr for them. That the staff here is trying to create not only Classic Everquest but the Classic Feel, and have made changes in the past that change Classic Everquest into Classic Feel. The things they've changed had major impacts on the spirit of the game, just like Charm is right now. So no, I don't think this is about any personal stuff and is more about the community and game as a whole. I firmly believe a nerf to Charm fits in perfectly with the goal of the staff here.

The thing is that you could do something simple like reduce a charmed pet's damage by 50% and they'd still probably be doing over double the DPS of the highest DPS in the group. This is the nerf I've always thought could probably go through but I really want to see some parses first before making any suggestions. What I'm saying is that even with a 50% damage reduction, people would still Charm and it would still be extremely effective, and therefore doesn't go against the Classic Feel, Enchanter would still be by far the strongest class in the game.

[Ligma]

Yeah, I haven't played P99 in years and can't join in on green because of a broken PC. I've just always forumquested.

[bwe]

Unnerf pet daggers

[d-tron]

No one was using OT hammers back in the day either, should probably nerf those as well.

[bum3]

Originally Posted by d-tron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one was using OT hammers back in the day either, should probably nerf those as well.

Amen brother... i remember our guild tank.. wacked mobs for over 5 minutes trying to get it to proc. By the time it went off the named was dead. He had to pay for ports from then out cause brother had ogre dex.

[kjs86z]

This is starting to feel like the WoW class forums.

Stern cringe.

[TheRusty]

It's almost as if twenty years of people working to min-max playing this game has generated levels of efficiency and effectiveness that nobody would have guessed back in 1999.

You know.

Back when people were stacking Wisdom on Warriors to get that magic resist up, 'cause "that's how it works in D&D"

[cd288]

Originally Posted by TheRusty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's almost as if twenty years of people working to min-max playing this game has generated levels of efficiency and effectiveness that nobody would have guessed back in 1999.

You know.

Back when people were stacking Wisdom on Warriors to get that magic resist up, 'cause "that's how it works in D&D"

lmao