Are you kidding me?

[Raev]

I mean, anyone can succeed here as long as you are willing to either a) track long hours or b) join a zerg guild.

The question is why the staff like it this way.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, anyone can succeed here as long as you are willing to either a) track long hours or b) join a zerg guild.

The question is why the staff like it this way.

[Rararboker]

Mistle, it is time to stop posting. You are embarrassing yourself.

[Mistle]

Fellow AM member comes in to try to rescue Maner's horrible performance. It's okay, Rarar. He'll be all right.

[Rararboker]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fellow AM member comes in to try to rescue Maner's horrible performance. It's okay, Rarar. He'll be all right.

It's okay guy. He is doing fine. You are the one making statements that make no sense. I'm trying to help you. Help me help you.

[TheDuck]

should come to red, mobs are up for days we are super casual < Tempest > is the biggest and only guild on red99.

there is no real pvp, just no lines for items, and no pvp schedual

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by TheDuck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

should come to red, mobs are up for days we are super casual < Tempest > is the biggest and only guild on red99.

there is no real pvp, just no lines for items, and no pvp schedual

Looks like a mess just witnessing tonight. Was on for 15 minutes and it was an LnS situation because of trains from the opposing side that go unregulated.

[Mistle]

Swish, agree or disagree: a spot in a rotation should only be held by a raid force capable of beating the target.

As for what BDA wants, I have never heard it ask for a rotation now. BDA would work with any agreement the players make if it is fair. Racing, rotation, lockouts whatever. What BDA no longer has the patience for is sitting a dozen people for FTE and more for tracking for sixteen hours where one second distraction means all that time was wasted, over and over. Its neither fair nor sane to ask members to do this for pixels, especially for the smallest of the five raiding groups. If that is what Sirken thinks is reasonable effort for elf pixels then the best option is simy not to play until someone with for of a clue becomes GM. Over a hundred nearly two hundred man-hours for a single mob? The amount a normal person works in an entire month? Only Sirken and the drooling neckbeards of AM could think that is even remotely reasonable.

As for the white knight here, the important thing is that YOU believe it. Maybe Maner will sleep with you once you prove your love, right? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Mistle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Swish, agree or disagree: a spot in a rotation should only be held by a raid force capable of beating the target.

As for what BDA wants, I have never heard it ask for a rotation now. BDA would work with any agreement the players make if it is fair. Racing, rotation, lockouts whatever. What BDA no longer has the patience for is sitting a dozen people for FTE and more for tracking for sixteen hours where one second distraction means all that time was wasted, over and over. Its neither fair nor sane to ask members to do this for pixels, especially for the smallest of the five raiding groups. If that is what Sirken thinks is reasonable effort for elf pixels then the best option is simy not to play until someone with for of a clue becomes GM. Over a hundred nearly two hundred man-hours for a single mob? The amount a normal person works in an entire month? Only Sirken and the drooling neckbeards of AM could think that is even remotely reasonable.

As for the white knight here, the important thing is that YOU believe it. Maybe Maner will sleep with you once you prove your love, right? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While long variance and making life sacrifices for pixels is ridiculous, history shows us that even if the casual guilds work something out... within that a certain guild will probably tow the line for a while before thinking "actually, we can get more for ourselves now that this has been set up".

So in essence, give the dog a bone and it won't share for longer than necessary.

Of course the guild in question should be able to take down the target, but what the server has no consideration for is patience, to let these guilds learn encounters in order to beat them.

That's where Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy met their end. BDA decide that casual guilds who can't already do the content aren't worth keeping on the rotation...and therefore you get a stale raid scene with the same old same old guilds (with their ex-MC/Supremacy apps), same old raid leaders getting the same old pixels.

What would be good for the longevity of the raid scene on blue is letting the leveling guilds who want to raid.... raid.

You sadly can't trust the top end of the casual guilds not to dick on smaller "true" casual guilds, and that's why a rotation won't work.

[Mistle]

My apologies for replying late, a non shitpost deserved proper quoting.

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While long variance and making life sacrifices for pixels is ridiculous, history shows us that even if the casual guilds work something out... within that a certain guild will probably tow the line for a while before thinking "actually, we can get more for ourselves now that this has been set up".

So in essence, give the dog a bone and it won't share for longer than necessary.

Of course the guild in question should be able to take down the target, but what the server has no consideration for is patience, to let these guilds learn encounters in order to beat them.

That's where Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy met their end. BDA decide that casual guilds who can't already do the content aren't worth keeping on the rotation...and therefore you get a stale raid scene with the same old same old guilds (with their ex-MC/Supremacy apps), same old raid leaders getting the same old pixels.

I think you mistake the motivations behind what happened. Now I don't want to open old wounds so CSG members, don't take this the wrong way, I love you guys and cheer when you get mobs. But back then, MC and other small guilds weren't the problem. The problem that the middle guilds had with the situation was the double dipping some guilds were engaging in. They had their spot in the rotation, but they were also using the small guilds to get a second whirl at the loot, by helping the small guilds and then taking the cream. There is nothing wrong with alliances and they should have been free to do this, to help small guilds like MC get raids in, but if they were going to help a raid, then that should count as their spot in the rotation. Instead they were pulling loot from both that spot and their OWN spot, while propping up a guild who shouldn't have been in the rotation for that mob yet.

If BDA had as evil motivations as you attribute to them, what they would have done instead of absorbing MC (partly) is ally with them instead, and any other small guild that couldn't do a mob on its own, and take some of the loot each time. They could have loaded the rotation that way. This is basically what other guilds were already starting to do.

The outcome was never considered the optimal solution. It was probably a mistake to suggest Gorenaire as the gatekeeper mob in the discussions to revamp the rotation as well, in hindsight, as that led to bad feelings from a lot of people including Sirken (but I was not a part of the discussion and maybe there were reasons to do so clearer in private). Personally, as someone who really dislikes all the stupid competitiveness in P99s raid scene as EQ has never been a game built for that sort of style, the whole thing was kind of a downer. But it is what it is, and we have moved on.

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would be good for the longevity of the raid scene on blue is letting the leveling guilds who want to raid.... raid.

You sadly can't trust the top end of the casual guilds not to dick on smaller "true" casual guilds, and that's why a rotation won't work.

And I think boiled down what most guilds below A/A really want is just a transformation to "more effort = more pixels" from the current "insane effort = all the pixels". BDA isn't pushing for a rotation, I am sure they would work with one if that is what the guilds of the server agreed to, but it's not the preferred solution I have seen suggested anywhere. I think BDA quite freely would admit that A/A deserve more loot than it does, probably significantly more, given current effort levels, and after all there are twice as many regular raiders in each of Aftermath and Awakened than BDA can muster so of course they will get more loot. What it does NOT like is the current required buyin to get any loot at all. Two hundred manhours, potentially, of effort for one mob is an unreasonable requirement to even get anything beyond a miracle sniff. So BDA limits itself to more reasonably contested mobs in VP and other non-ToV zones, waits patiently for the promised earthquakes to show up, and otherwise gets what it can during the hours it can muster worthwhile numbers.