Stop the Socking

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Racing does not work without maps, guidelines, starting points, qualifiers, fraps, evidence gathering, and a large neckbeardy roster who can have people waiting at the starting point for the 16 hrs.

Most of these concerns again are false and just more ways you invent to disparage the idea. It really doesn't make sense either because the problems you seem to be trying to invent are largely problems you have to face with CotHing.

1. You have 1 tracker outside the racers. You don't need a map. This is better than the current CotH'ing as you have less people near spawns.
2. You don't need fraps or evidence gathering. 2 racers from a guild is easy to follow and police without headaches.
3. Reduce variance. Also waiting at the starting point is the same as being ready to CotH for 16 hours. Again seems like you are describing the problems with what we currently have.. not what we could have. Although it has been said many times...put lower variance into your proposal.
4. Starting points already exist with CotH'ing.

I will make another point because I have seen you post something a few times now. We in TMO have strategies faster than CotHing that doesn't involve CotH ducking. CotHing was never very innovative or appealing to us to ever do because competition that is fair to everyone is what most of us desire. We chose not to implement strategies to this point to push this to even further extremes. I just want you to personally know this was never an "Arms race". We can turn it into that whenever we choose. Yet we don't. Because we hope common sense eventually wins out.

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cucs,

Get the ground swell of support for a racing FTE, Taken will oblige and still be there competing under whatever dumb ruleset is forced upon us.

Guess what tho, after 1 month of the 'new' style of FTE raiding...the guilds which dont compete now....will still not.

I guess its a shame no one sees the bigger penis.

( inb4 people quote me and alter my last sentence into something self serving towards my guild )

ftfy

Also, you're wrong.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ftfy

Also, you're wrong.

what am I wrong about exactly?

Where have I supported COH ducking?

I have simply stated that the race doesnt fix poopsocking and if we make changes I would like to see those changes affect whether people shit in socks or not.

No one here that supports a race can deny that you still require both the racer and the tracker to stare at their monitor for X-Y hours.

Even if its reduced to 1 hour variance, you still poopsock for 1 hr.

Lazie,

Can you explain ( bc I honestly dont know ) the role of the other people on the blue pad who are not the official taggers since you allow only 2?

And how are qualifiers not a concern for racing?

- What run speed is allowed?
- What classes are allowed?
- Starting points?
- How do you prove someone broke one of those defined rules?

and why do you have to make me chuckle saying that stuff about a pure and honest competition....then threaten the server that you have a 'secret weapon' faster than COHing but refuse to use it.

wat?

but again, I repeat.

If racing is what gets decided on, then Taken will race.

I am sorry I see the big picture when making a change and not trying to just have a bandaid, flavor of the month solution.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what am I wrong about exactly?


Lazie,

Can you explain ( bc I honestly dont know ) the role of the other people on the blue pad who are not the official taggers since you allow only 2?

And how are qualifiers not a concern for racing?

- What run speed is allowed?
- What classes are allowed?
- Starting points?
- How do you prove someone broke one of those defined rules?

and why do you have to make me chuckle saying that stuff about a pure and honest competition....then threaten the server that you have a 'secret weapon' faster than COHing but refuse to use it.

wat?

but again, I repeat.

If racing is what gets decided on, then Taken will race.

I am sorry I see the big picture when making a change and not trying to just have a bandaid, flavor of the month solution.

We don't only allow 2 in Class C. Majority of those in VP are pullers with a couple buffers. Again you are just inventing ways to disparage something that is true competition.

Instead of responding to the many obvious deflections you are creating in your post (Derogatory comments galore!) I will simply deal in truths. Because you need to stop side tracking this discussion with things you are inventing.

1. Racing is competition and CotH ducking is the luck of when you duck.
2. Racing would include more participants in the FFA cycle. Even without variance reduction.
3. There would be less rules headaches with racing. I know you are trying hard to invent scenarios, but this is a simple truth. Remember that accidental FTE that Taken pulled and killed ? Wouldn't happen. Remember the fit thrown over mages standing on the spawn ? Wouldn't happen.
4. Setting a mandatory number for racers and changing it to 1 tracker will have less people standing on the spawns of mobs and less people from each guild socking the mobs.

I get it while others might not. Calling it a bandaid and saying you are taking a bigger view though is just false. Your views are coming from a position you feel you have power to present and manipulate. It doesn't make the view broader, educated or better in any way. It makes it your opinion that you are staunchly standing on. You are standing on it because you want a change that the GM's have already said no to.

[Daldaen]

CotH ducking we can ban outright if you wish and figure out punishment for doing it. I'm sure Taken would be behind that NP.

CoTH Mages we could ban as well, and force foot racing / starting points. But that doesn't solve the poopsock issue I don't think. Same number of people will be at the same number of points. Only difference would be maybe 1 tracker instead of 2 Mages on the spawn.

CotH mage and Foot race is no different, both require a catalyst (seeing the dragon), which leads to a reaction (batphone -> CotH or hotkey/vent shouting telling people to run), then a short or long run towards a target spamming a jav/Clicky and targeting.

I'll grant you foot racing may be a lower barrier of entry for smaller guilds. But if you don't limit Runspeed it just becomes bards, and that's the same barrier of entry. If you do limit Runspeed, then that's more rules and likely becomes an extra body SoWing you every 30min. Or do you really use SoW potions every sock? Plus unless we get variance lowered (which I believe you're behind), you won't see smaller guilds competing regardless.

[khanable]

Why do you need a punishment in place to stop?

Why can't you just stop?

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what am I wrong about exactly?

Where have I supported COH ducking?

I have simply stated that the race doesnt fix poopsocking and if we make changes I would like to see those changes affect whether people shit in socks or not.

No one here that supports a race can deny that you still require both the racer and the tracker to stare at their monitor for X-Y hours.

Even if its reduced to 1 hour variance, you still poopsock for 1 hr.

Lazie,

Can you explain ( bc I honestly dont know ) the role of the other people on the blue pad who are not the official taggers since you allow only 2?

And how are qualifiers not a concern for racing?

- What run speed is allowed?
- What classes are allowed?
- Starting points?
- How do you prove someone broke one of those defined rules?

and why do you have to make me chuckle saying that stuff about a pure and honest competition....then threaten the server that you have a 'secret weapon' faster than COHing but refuse to use it.

wat?

but again, I repeat.

If racing is what gets decided on, then Taken will race.

I am sorry I see the big picture when making a change and not trying to just have a bandaid, flavor of the month solution.

You're not crusading for anything other than your own agenda and you should quit trying to fool people into thinking you are.

There is no big picture. The big picture idea was already shot down. We're not getting FFA sim repops or anything like it and we're not getting reduced variance because the server has proven we don't deserve it. The C/R/FFA system is here to stay as is until Velious.

You're promoting either one extreme or the other thinking that that sort of grandstanding is going to get something done.

You know that class R guilds were showing up before coth ducking and now they're not. Your assessment that 1 month will go by before they stop again after this nonsense gets ruled out is completely unfounded and false.

Taken and for some reason Chest are the only people holding on to coth ducking like it's some chip to be played to get us full FFA repops, and it's against the will of 95% of the server.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CotH ducking we can ban outright if you wish and figure out punishment for doing it. I'm sure Taken would be behind that NP.

CoTH Mages we could ban as well, and force foot racing / starting points. But that doesn't solve the poopsock issue I don't think. Same number of people will be at the same number of points. Only difference would be maybe 1 tracker instead of 2 Mages on the spawn.

CotH mage and Foot race is no different, both require a catalyst (seeing the dragon), which leads to a reaction (batphone -> CotH or hotkey/vent shouting telling people to run), then a short or long run towards a target spamming a jav/Clicky and targeting.

I'll grant you foot racing may be a lower barrier of entry for smaller guilds. But if you don't limit Runspeed it just becomes bards, and that's the same barrier of entry. If you do limit Runspeed, then that's more rules and likely becomes an extra body SoWing you every 30min. Or do you really use SoW potions every sock? Plus unless we get variance lowered (which I believe you're behind), you won't see smaller guilds competing regardless.

One is healthy competition that more guilds can participate in and the other isn't. It also limits the people in zone (No buffers at some mobs etc.) So it largely changes the number of people in some zones. You may not be able to completely get rid of poop socking, but you can limit the value it has and restrict the number of players guilds can use.

I could compete on these spawns right now without a CotH mage and win. There are different mechanics in this game that are faster than CotHing...ducking or otherwise. Banning just CotH mages or ducking does nothing to curb the current excesses things get pushed to. You need a universal way of competing that people can follow and that is accessible.

That is foot races from designated starting points. Also any class that can cast sow have their uses in racing as well (If we are limiting run speed). Shaman's can throw Javs, Rangers have Bows, and a Druid can easily be just one of the 2 racers if neither of those 2 are present. BtW a 10 dose SoW potion lasts 5 hours. 2 10 hours..3 15 hours if it came to that. It opens the options up to use every class and give every guild an opportunity no matter what Class they can bring to the race.

[Amirite]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. You don't need fraps or evidence gathering. 2 racers from a guild is easy to follow and police without headaches.

LOL Are you kidding me??? wtf

edit providing you a link to why this would not work: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...=168758&page=2

Evidence is posted then forumquested into demanding more evidence with logs and timestamps with satellite images with tells and locs by more then 1 person at the same time...

even though the evidence was clear it was still spun and pissed on by TMO to demand more evidence and spin rules to favor themselves.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you need a punishment in place to stop?

Why can't you just stop?

Same reason TMO and IB CotH raced when Taken wasn't present in zone.

Because the other guy "Could do start doing it".

If they hate it so much, the guild leaders can make a post in the raid discussion forum to get rid of it.