OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Racun]

Disclaimer: this is all hypothetical as I don't have access to population data.

To come to an actual compromise I think we need to break the problem down to it's most simplistic level. I've seen numbers thrown around here by people such as 50/50 and 75/25 splits, but that's not really what it's all about. A 50/50 split implies each person is getting an equal share, when in reality a 50/50 hardcore/casual split is 50% of loot going to 10% (again I don't know the exact number, this is all hypothetical) and the other 50% to 90% of the server.

There needs to be a compromise that the majority agrees upon to proceed, so lets break it down even further. How many individual players are there in TMO/FE/IB and how many individual players are there on the rest of the server(or maybe just in the rest of the raid capable guilds - include all guilds that can kill a raid target here)? If we can get access to these numbers we can find the exact ratio of hardcores to casuals.

From there we need to agree upon what loot % per person would be appropriate for a casual vs a hardcore player. E.g. I think a hardcore player is entitled to 4x as much loot as a casual player, so if TMO/FE/IB have 300 individual players between them and the rest of the server = 3000 individual players, then TMO/FE/IB at a 4:1 ratio = 300/3300 x 4 = 1200/3300.. so from there we see that a raid target limit system would be the most appropriate, and using that ratio the target limit per guild (treating IB, FE and TMO as separate guilds) would need to be 1200/3300 (36%) therefore all guilds should then have a limit entitling them to 12%(rounded for simplicity) of all raid targets per month each. If we were to increase the ratio to 6:1 then each guild would be entitled to 18% of all raid targets per month.

Note that this doesn't mean everyone gets a fair share. Some people will still get the full amount per month and others may get 0, but this way guilds would need to pick & choose their targets appropriately and there would still be competition over the choicest loot whilst still giving the casuals plenty of available raid targets. Obviously this is all hypothetical and you can debate over what the ratio of hardcore:casual loot/raid targets should be, but I think we need to stop acting like hardcore players make up 50% of the server population.

Probably TL;DR for most people, but it's a compromise that provides an alternative that caters to the casual scum whilst still satiating that pixel lust of the hardcore population.

[dustysr06]

I think it sucks, but i did have a favorite part:

As of January 1, 2014, Category A guilds will be considered “Hands Off” for any Priority raid targets during the first 7 days of each calendar month. During that time period, Category A guilds will avoid any of their priority targets and open them to the rest of the server. This will however exclude raid targets in Veeshan’s Peak.

During the “Hands Off" Period, Category A Guilds may take this opportunity to go after Category A de-prioritized targets that they will be avoiding the other 3 weeks a month.

It is important to note that FE, IB and TMO will not necessarily be actively tracking these deprioritized mobs during this time, as we have agreed only to track and engage them during this time if there is a need for a specific item (e.g. we have a warrior holding a green scale that needs a maestro hand).

Curious, does this include the *need* to sell these item MQs to other guilds? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Compromise to me sounds more like splitting the month in half, and doing the first 1/2 as a 'rotation' to be randomly determined each month and the second 1/2 half as FFA, sock ur balls and do whatever u want while basement dwelling... sounds way better to me

[Buriedpast]

FE you guys got this wrong.

Smarten the fuck up.

[Nirgon]

All the markings of a compromise and no soul raping poop socking.

Let's see who drags their feet here.

[Buriedpast]

Also turp, it isn't welfare. We (TMO and IB and FE) win here.

Taken will never get a trakanon we want, no one gets VP kills we want.

It's the fairest thing possible having a bag limit.

[stewe]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In order to promote an environment that fosters a more friendly atmosphere between the “Casuals” and the “Hardcore” several raiding guilds have come together to draft this agreement for the server. The high-end raiding guilds have made several concessions in favor of the smaller guilds to get more targets. This proposal comes as a function of the input of many members of the server through posts, tells, and vent conversations from members and leadership across the server.

No poop socking agreement:
No guild will have more than 2 members present at any given time during period of time where either Venril Sathir or Trakanon are in window. Specifically those tracking for VS will not be in the room. This will apply to all mobs.

Naturally, there are times that will exist where it is necessary to have more than 2 trackers in the zone for an encounter. There are, however, instances where more than 2 characters from any guilds will need to be in zone. If a guild is CoTHing members down or buffing they may do so, and they may med to full. Upon reaching full mana or completing a CoTH the surplus members must log off and not maintain a presence.

There will no longer be grouping in the VS pit to circumvent the 2-player no-sock rule. This is easy to justify as it’s a terrible spot for exp and has relatively no value for any player to be here if they aren’t looking to manipulate this rule.

In addition, guilds are able to engage Prot and Tola within a reasonable amount of time and may not malinger in the zone after the mobs have been killed.

With the agreement to remove socking as a tactic, we request that GMs significantly reduce variance, as it only serves as a detriment to everyone at this point.

DA Stalling Tactics:
Any stalling tactic such as Divine Barrier or Aura, Harmshield, monk whirlwind or avoidance discs or DA Idol is considered 1 unit of stall. No guild shall employ more than 2 units of stalling during any raid target encounter (36 seconds). If said guild employs a stall tactic and fails to engage the encounter after that time period has concluded, they will forfeit any attempt to engage that target during this spawn period and retreat from the encounter.

CATEGORY A & B
Any guilds considered to be a raid guild will be categorized either A or B.

The Mystical Order, Forceful Entry, and Inglorious Basterds will start in category A. All other guilds will start as Category B.

If a category B guild kills 40% or more of targets in any given month during our “hands off” period (explained below), they will be promoted to Category A and be subject to the respective restrictions.

Any guild that is promoted to Category A will remain in this category for 30 days and will remain in this category until their kill percentage falls to 20% or below.

VP Dragons are excluded from percentage calculations.

Any guild that is VP capable (Kills a dragon in VP) will be considered Category A for 90 days.

HANDS OFF PERIOD
As of January 1, 2014, Category A guilds will be considered “Hands Off” for any Priority raid targets during the first 7 days of each calendar month. During that time period, Category A guilds will avoid any of their priority targets and open them to the rest of the server. This will however exclude raid targets in Veeshan’s Peak.

During the “Hands Off" Period, Category A Guilds may take this opportunity to go after Category A de-prioritized targets that they will be avoiding the other 3 weeks a month.

It is important to note that FE, IB and TMO will not necessarily be actively tracking these deprioritized mobs during this time, as we have agreed only to track and engage them during this time if there is a need for a specific item (e.g. we have a warrior holding a green scale that needs a maestro hand).

Repop Days
During a repop, the Category A and B restrictions will not apply, however TMO, FE, and IB have agreed that they will not pursue non-priority targets during a repop.

CAT A De-Prioritized Raid Targets:
Gorenoire, Talendor, Maestro of Rancor & Dracolich (solo spawn)

CAT A Priority Raid Targets:
Cazic Thule (Draco), Venril Sathir, Trakanon, Faydedar, Innourouk, Severillous

Nagy/Vox
As it concerns Nagafen & Vox; CAT A Guilds will alternate killing only one per week and the following week killing the other always leaving one available to the remainder of the server.

Plane of Sky/Noble Dojorn

The Plane of Sky rotation will be respected by all guilds participating, however guilds are free to renegotiate their days with whomever they please.

Guilds agree to leave Overseer of Air up (providing the mechanics on blue still allow for this) to spawn multiple Nobles per day/week/month. If a Noble spawns during a guilds scheduled time, it will be assumed that the guild currently engaging sky will have a first right to engage that noble or they may defer that target to another guild if they choose to do so.

Guild Council
In addition to the aforementioned agreement, I have spoken with Sirken and Derubael about creating a guild council consisting of the following guilds; Divinity, Taken, The Mystical Order, Forceful Entry, Inglourious Basterds, and Bregan d`Aerth. Each guild will have two members that will sit on the council and each guild will have a single vote. Voting for amendments will require a majority (4/6 votes). The council will also be responsible for sanctioning guilds that violate the terms of the agreement. Sanctions will require a super majority to affect (5/6 votes).

GMs Sirken and Derubael will oversee the committee if need be and their decisions will supersede those of the council. The CSR staff will defer to the judgement of the council however and will only intervene in extenuating circumstances. Guilds will also have the right to appeal decisions with CSR staff. The CSR staff has given the council the power to self-govern and use this committee to self-police. They also encourage guilds to work out disputes amongst themselves before bringing issues before CSR staff.

Will guild leaders please PM me with the members of their respective guilds that they would like to add to this council. Ideally, the members you choose will have the authority to make decisions on behalf of your guild or act in the stead of a Guild Leader in the event of the leader’s absence.

Please reference the above document for your consideration. The guilds that have drafted this agreement believe this is a monumental change for the server in a favorable direction for all parties involved. The leadership of each guild is asked to reply, “Signed” in support of the above.

So who gave just them 3 guild all the power? U gave it to yourself, go figure. This is just another way for the 1% to shit on the rest. Same thing, just with a new coat of paint.

[Aviann]

We must come to an agreement.

[dustysr06]

No need to random week to week, just have the first 2 weeks of the month decided via /random between guilds (picks for mobs to appropriate rolls, free to trade picks with other guilds - lottery style)

last 1/2 of the month goes back to FFA, TMO/FE/IB domination for proper neckbeard growth

this is/was divinity's idea - and i think its a good start/fair compromise

[Durka]

Originally Posted by dustysr06 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to random week to week, just have the first 2 weeks of the month decided via /random between guilds (picks for mobs to appropriate rolls, free to trade picks with other guilds - lottery style)

last 1/2 of the month goes back to FFA, TMO/FE/IB domination for proper neckbeard growth

this is/was divinity's idea - and i think its a good start/fair compromise

^^

#1 pick over point system. I dont see the proposal from FE/TMO viable for so called "category b' guilds. So far all I have seen is defensive responses and harsh criticism for this original proposal. Why not entertain this lottery system?

Lottery is not socialism.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Durka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^

#1 pick over point system. I dont see the proposal from FE/TMO viable for so called "category b' guilds. So far all I have seen is defensive responses and harsh criticism for this original proposal. Why not entertain this lottery system?

Lottery is not socialism.

This is a rotation two weeks out of the month and involves 0 competition. How would you determine a guilds entry into this system? How long so they have to kill their mob? What happens if they can't in allotted time frame?