Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[fortior]

I'm not going to make a video because you can't click your earring, dude. You've gotten lots of good advice from experienced players here, but your answer is always to plug up your ears and demand 'evidence', aka for other people to do the legwork for you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to make a video because you can't click your earring, dude. You've gotten lots of good advice from experienced players here, but your answer is always to plug up your ears and demand 'evidence', aka for other people to do the legwork for you.

It is always convenient that you can simply say "I don't need evidence for my claims".

I am not sure why you think I am ignoring other people's advise. Maybe you should unplug your ears a bit and listen to other people[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[fortior]

It's truly a mystery how Vanquish could have failed with playmakers like you in their ranks. Demanding 'video evidence' of someone clicking a DA earring, like it's never been done. Mindboggling.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's truly a mystery how Vanquish could have failed with playmakers like you in their ranks. Demanding 'video evidence' of someone clicking a DA earring, like it's never been done. Mindboggling.

I am not saying you need to make a video showing how to click a DA earring lol. Nice strawman.

I am saying you should make some videos of yourself showing how pro you are, because your argument simply boils down to "I am better at the game than you, therefore I am right".

Thus far, you can't even prove you are good at the game, so this terrible argument falls flat.

[fortior]

Why would I put any more effort into teaching you anything about the game. It's been a complete waste of time so far.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would I put any more effort into teaching you anything about the game. It's been a complete waste of time so far.

If you can show evidence, the whole community benefits. Whenever these kinds of discussions come up again, we can simply point to that.

It's a win/win scenario, since I don't care about being wrong. If you prove me wrong, everybody learns something. If I am right, hopefully you reduce your trolling.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can show evidence, the whole community benefits. Whenever these kinds of discussions come up again, we can simply point to that.

It's a win/win scenario, since I don't care about being wrong. If you prove me wrong, everybody learns something. If I am right, hopefully you reduce your trolling.

Since evidence is so important to the community, please kindly provide evidence which support your claims made over tens? hundreds? of posts that your Shaman can improve a group's DPS (providing benefit to the group and/or more of a benefit than a non-Epic Magician).

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting mulitple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Additionally, I am still eagerly and patiently awaiting your response to the following 2 simple questions I asked in my previous post - which you are (seemingly) ignoring:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you believe the DPS will be "the same" / "won't change" in a group vs solo please clarify, are there or are there not outside variables introduced via the addition of group-mates which can "skew the data" / "change the DPS equation"?

You simply cannot claim "it (DPS) will be the same solo vs group, it (DPS) won't change" while simultaneously claiming "outside variables when grouping (which do not exist/apply when solo) skew the data " / "change the DPS equation" (affect DPS), as the statements are simply contradictory.


If you believe there are variables out of your control introduced by each group-mate which can "skew the data" and "change the DPS equation" please clarify, how can a given player's DPS be "the same every time" / "won't change in a group" when taking the aforementioned variables into consideration/account?

You simply cannot claim "outside variables when grouping (which do not exist/apply when solo) skew the data " / "change the DPS equation" (affect DPS) while simultaneously claiming "it (DPS) will be the same solo vs group, it (DPS) won't change", as the statements are simply contradictory.

[7thGate]

I would actually really love to see the DA train rip redirecting a train off someone else, if anyone has a video of this working. As described this goes against my understanding of how DA operates and doesn't sound like it would work. As far as I know you will immediately temporarily drop to the bottom of the hate list when DA activates, preventing you from holding aggro on anyone since DA tanking could potentially be a thing otherwise.

Every time I've seen someone go DA they immediately shed aggro back, whether its a paladin emergency DAing in halls of testing or a rip off a DA kite bringing everything until DA wears off causing the pack to split as the untagged mobs re-aggro the initial DA trainout person. For this to work as described, I must be missing some aspect of how this mechanic works. Hm...

...is it that the mob doesn't check for a new top hate entry to potentially target switch until someone does something to it? Maybe I should test this.

I have blocked a train as described with Nimble by sitting down in the path of a train before it hits camp to sit aggro the train on inbound and Nimble kite it away to give time to log out, but Nimble doesn't change your aggro order.

Also as a note, you get between 12 and 18 seconds off DA since its 3 server ticks duration. I was reminded of that the hard way while working out splitting triplets.

[Guesty07]

444 pages to learn than mage damage > shaman

[DeathsSilkyMist]

1c. Fact: This is a 4 man discussion. Pocket Clerics are not relevant. Pathetic attempt to pull in a non related thread about a solo enchanter getting help with rezzes. If multiple group members were allowed, the cleric would have been included.

OP did not specify you cannot bring pocket Clerics. You can bring a pocket Cleric if you want to, and it is a common tactic on P99. Nobody needs to listen to your forced requirements that are simply applied to win the argument.

2b. Fact: Quite a lot of mobs are either hard to slow, or slow immune. sebilite protector for example, if slow cannot land, the shaman will be dead in a matter of seconds. Torpor is inferior to Cheal. This thread is about best, no need to settle for an inferior heal. Safer to just cheal an 8k hp pet

You can run the mobs around before you engage them to slow them. You need to show evidence that you have a Cleric/Enchanter duo doing this type of mob faster than a Shaman/Enchanter duo.

3c. Fact: Nor is malo or slow required for charm breaks. Stun is the best defense against Charm breaks, this is how enchanters do it, cleric stun only supports this even more. This thread is about best, stun command can lock down both the pet & multiple other mobs at once too. It is the best arguably the defense against charm breaks, including anything the enchanter can offer, as it lasts longer than any enchanter stun. Clerics also have multiple single target slows. You'd be silly to pass this up for something like a shaman slow which no enchanter wants their pet slowed.

You need to show some evidence for this instead of just assuming it's better in the long run.

4c. Fact: See 2b. Torpor is not needed either, and is inferior to CH. Certain mobs can out dps Torpor. CH opens up options, especially if you do want to invite a warrior to attempt some harder mobs. Ie. no downside to losing Torpor, only upside to adding Cheal.

Please name some mobs that out-DPS Torpor and a group of 4 people would want to kill. Torpor also opens up options where using charmed pets is more difficult, like WW Dragons.

5c. Fact: DSM claimed that a shaman could put out dps similar to a 60 focused water pet mage in a group.

Please quote me where I said any of this. The entire purpose of comparing a Mage's DPS to a Shaman's DPS is to get an idea of what the gap is. This makes it easier to determine the what the DPS loss is vs. the utility gained.

6c. Fact: DPS has diminishing returns after a certain level of DPS. DPS provides more downtime for player fatigue. Utility has no returns after a certain level of utility. A cleric and 2 enchanters bring enough utility to render the shaman's utility useless.

Enchanters are also a high fatigue class, this really isn't a good argument. If you want easier to play classes, you wouldn't be suggesting Enchanters.

Fact: You have yet to provide evidence of shamans out-DPS mages in root/rotting scenarios

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdAIheodtY - Here is an example of root rotting in Velks. You can provide a video of a Mage killing the same mobs, and we can see who wins!