Player above server rules?

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by kaizersoze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(also double post)

And we shouldn't raise the limit of racers because AG / F have shitters like Capi who will sit in front of mobs to leash them on purpose so they can get a new FTE. Fewer people = easier to prove shenanigans.

Lockouts would solve this issue

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Yeah, the vast majority of the server does not want races as evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of the server...doesn't race. All this crying for racing is just the handful of people losing trying to change the rules until they can find something that benefits them. I remember the previous iteration of Kael races taking place because of the same bitching and the same losers kept losing, changing their complaint from 'pixel detection super coth' to 'pixel detection auto race' or whatever. So then after even more complaining from the vocal minority, it got changed to coths in Kael again. And now we have racing in Kael again. The complaining never stops until one party feels they have a strict advantage with the current ruleset, and all we have are half ass ideas of 'competition' implemented with oversight that could be described as aloof and whimsical at best and nobody ever satisfied.

If I were you and I wanted to slay the big bad Riot beast, I would look at lobbying for some kind of ruleset that has a zerg tax. Bag limits were one idea that was thrown around, but that quickly breaks down when you consider that many people would just make alt guilds to try to grab more pieces of the pie, changing it from a guild with zerg numbers to a zerg number of guilds. I had a fun idea of having Tunare be decided by having a 'per capita' competition to see how many mob kills your guild could rack up in growth divided by the maximum number of players you had in zone at any time. Not really able to be tracked in any way that this would ever be a solution, but certainly something along these lines could be figured out by someone smarter and who cared more than I do that would then let any given entity compete for any given engagement.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, the vast majority of the server does not want races as evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of the server...doesn't race. All this crying for racing is just the handful of people losing trying to change the rules until they can find something that benefits them. I remember the previous iteration of Kael races taking place because of the same bitching and the same losers kept losing, changing their complaint from 'pixel detection super coth' to 'pixel detection auto race' or whatever. So then after even more complaining from the vocal minority, it got changed to coths in Kael again. And now we have racing in Kael again. The complaining never stops until one party feels they have a strict advantage with the current ruleset, and all we have are half ass ideas of 'competition' implemented with oversight that could be described as aloof and whimsical at best and nobody ever satisfied.

If I were you and I wanted to slay the big bad Riot beast, I would look at lobbying for some kind of ruleset that has a zerg tax. Bag limits were one idea that was thrown around, but that quickly breaks down when you consider that many people would just make alt guilds to try to grab more pieces of the pie, changing it from a guild with zerg numbers to a zerg number of guilds. I had a fun idea of having Tunare be decided by having a 'per capita' competition to see how many mob kills your guild could rack up in growth divided by the maximum number of players you had in zone at any time. Not really able to be tracked in any way that this would ever be a solution, but certainly something along these lines could be figured out by someone smarter and who cared more than I do that would then let any given entity compete for any given engagement.

None of the small guilds race because it's a live pull and no lockouts , small guilds can't /won't pre park and be ready on a whim. With lockouts and time they can kill anything. This whole "they don't race so fuck them" thing is dumb cause there is no lockouts . Can't compare yet. In 2017 when there was lockouts both rustle and AG ran (ag wasn't the AG of now and we're casual). Compare it to then if you wanna compare, most likely you didn't raid then tho neither did have the people in this thread.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

I absolutely think that lockouts would create a more inclusive atmosphere that allow other guilds access to content. On the other hand, having the lockouts determined by racing effectively excludes 99% of the players on the server from competing, an objective GIANT LEAP in the direction of exclusivity. Even more annoyingly, it reinforces this wall staring paradigm that is not only fucking terrible, it isn't even strictly classic.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I absolutely think that lockouts would create a more inclusive atmosphere that allow other guilds access to content. On the other hand, having the lockouts determined by racing effectively excludes 99% of the players on the server from competing, an objective GIANT LEAP in the direction of exclusivity. Even more annoyingly, it reinforces this wall staring paradigm that is not only fucking terrible, it isn't even strictly classic.

This is just dumb , you can have million on line back in day, don’t limit racers. there was no exclusivity. It helped casuals a lot having time to setup, they won’t compete on live pulls. Did you raid in 2017?

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I absolutely think that lockouts would create a more inclusive atmosphere that allow other guilds access to content. On the other hand, having the lockouts determined by racing effectively excludes 99% of the players on the server from competing, an objective GIANT LEAP in the direction of exclusivity. Even more annoyingly, it reinforces this wall staring paradigm that is not only fucking terrible, it isn't even strictly classic.

I really like roll offs instead of race on spawn. It's sane. It also all but eliminates the advantages of running say, pixel detection software.


In terms of practicing runs... I could personally hold training sessions if needed. There are plenty of raiders like Conda who would all but love to teach any casual how to race. It's really not that hard. ToV especially. It's way more of a crap shoot than the other races. It's about not dying, not necessarily being the leader. Practicing KT/Statue runs, and dain runs should take all but 2 hours to be competitive.

THE ONLY drawback of racing, that I can think of, is DA idols. I remember that being a bottleneck to casual guilds.

Can someone fill me in on the issues with Dain racing? What happened? Are we talking about when we had to zone in from Thurg? If so, 10 minute roll off is an easy fix. LMK otherwise.

Lockouts are definitely the most inclusive option. I could join dawn believers and dunk a vulak fte on these hoes day 1. With racing and lockouts, we could also easily structure the rules so that a race is a conclusive event. I.E, 90% less raid petitions. 90% less rule lawyer. ALSO, I think racer limits should have nothing to do with alliances. 10 per guild no matter what. THAT WAY, I could win vulak fte as a dawn believer, and then choose which guild to ally with to kill the mob. I would choose Riot, so that Jestuh cannot become a best in slot druid.


Now that FPS is locked at 60, even some of the total caveman shit that was going on in the previous era of racing (From what I heard, setting your fps to like 10 fps and spamming alt tab and shit while jumping? Yuck.)

[hotkarlmarxbros]

I'm not talking about exclusivity in the sense of how many people are allowed on the line. I mean it in the sense that not everybody is a racer. People can contribute in a ton of ways under the current system that sets your guild up for success. Clutch blurs, skillful pulls, cleric chains breaking off to effectively heal adds getting off tanked, bots parked, DKP tracked, etc. Saying that all mobs are now determined by a race effectively locks out everyone that doesn't want to or is unable to race from competing for content, which is the vast majority of the players on the server. Hell, even parking yourself and responding to a bp quickly is a worthwhile metric for success that goes out the window.

I didn't start playing EQ until last year, but I don't need to have raided when races were a thing to realize how many many people, including people in the guilds winning mobs, that completely removes from the competitive element of the game. Shit, when I was in AM I never saw you on the line, either. Only heard you pop into TS to talk shit or ask if people want DS lol.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not talking about exclusivity in the sense of how many people are allowed on the line. I mean it in the sense that not everybody is a racer. People can contribute in a ton of ways under the current system that sets your guild up for success. Clutch blurs, skillful pulls, cleric chains breaking off to effectively heal adds getting off tanked, bots parked, DKP tracked, etc. Saying that all mobs are now determined by a race effectively locks out everyone that doesn't want to or is unable to race from competing for content, which is the vast majority of the players on the server. Hell, even parking yourself and responding to a bp quickly is a worthwhile metric for success that goes out the window.

I didn't start playing EQ until last year, but I don't need to have raided when races were a thing to realize how many many people, including people in the guilds winning mobs, that completely removes from the competitive element of the game. Shit, when I was in AM I never saw you on the line, either. Only heard you pop into TS to talk shit or ask if people want DS lol.

What are you talking about there was no line in AM. Tov races ended before Rustle disbanded. I did plenty of time in roles including raid leading in AM, who were you in AM? Probably no one. You still have to go fight to the mobs even with lockouts.

[hotkarlmarxbros]

Kael races absolutely existed when both you and I were in AM. Kinda funny that the guy advocating for races doesn't even know where the race line is.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kael races absolutely existed when both you and I were in AM. Kinda funny that the guy advocating for races doesn't even know where the race line is.

Kael racing is not tov racing and lockouts didn’t exist, hope that helps. Who were you again?