Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Vexenu]

It's completely obnoxious to see people defending charm under the guise of classic purity when it's obviously nothing but naked self-interest from Enchanter players. It's even more obnoxious when these players have this laughable "git gud" attitude, as if their ability to faceroll the game when playing an absurdly overpowered class has more to do with their skill than the ridiculous class itself.

Reminder, the Enchanter is a class that has:

- The BEST CC in the game
- The BEST haste in the game
- The BEST mana regen in the game
- Slows, arguably the 2nd most OP spell in the game behind charm
- Self-runes to absorb damage
- An extremely powerful and underrated animation pet
- An unresistable MR debuff
- The ONLY class with Invis, IVU, memblur and Calm spells to get around dungeons

Does this sound like a weak class? Like a class that needs help? Sure, so let's go ahead and add charm! Now they also have:

- The BEST DPS in the game via charm pet
- The BEST tanking in the game via charm pet
- The ability to HEAL their charm pet out of combat via memblur

The class is overpowered before you even add charm into the equation. With charm as well, this is simply a faceroll class. I literally laugh when playing an Enchanter because it's so ridiculously easy and overpowered. I honestly don't even understand how anyone enjoys it. It trivializes the game completely. I suppose a certain type of player is attracted to that. But when you have a huge percentage of the server playing Enchanters and abusing charm the game is basically unrecognizable and feels nothing like classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's completely obnoxious to see people defending charm under the guise of classic purity when it's obviously nothing but naked self-interest from Enchanter players.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had quite my fill of enchanting over the last like 7 years. I don't have a horse in this race besides "shit's classic."

[Mushman]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had quite my fill of enchanting over the last like 7 years. I don't have a horse in this race besides "shit's classic."

The "Shit's classic." Doesn't seem genuine either.

Life tap clickies melting raid mobs "Shit's classic." Gone

Necro life taps not getting resisted "Shit's classic" Gone

Am I wrong?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Mushman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "Shit's classic." Doesn't seem genuine either.

Life tap clickies melting raid mobs "Shit's classic." Gone

Necro life taps not getting resisted "Shit's classic" Gone

Am I wrong?

What are you telling me for? I never advocated for those changes.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The class is overpowered before you even add charm into the equation.

This is what I've never understood about it in the first place. :\ They can do way too much of the best stuff. Maybe it's just because of the way Enchanters were at launch (people were disappointed and they were underpowered supposedly), so they got some major changes and additions, but those changes were too far overboard and perhaps Verant just figured to keep them in to get more people to play Enchanter? I really don't know.

However, reading through dialogue from devs back then they clearly wanted to and had every intention of balancing the classes to the best of their ability. So what happened with Enchanter? Did they actually perceive it as balanced, or did they just not "know how good it was" like people claim about the players? I just have a hard time believing that many of the things we experience on P99, while Classic, would've stuck if we had the same circumstances we have today back then.

[DMN]

You know the great thing about this thread is how "classic" it actually feels. Hordes of forum warriors trying to nerf class X.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is what I've never understood about it in the first place. :\ They can do way too much of the best stuff. Maybe it's just because of the way Enchanters were at launch (people were disappointed and they were underpowered supposedly), so they got some major changes and additions, but those changes were too far overboard and perhaps Verant just figured to keep them in to get more people to play Enchanter? I really don't know.

However, reading through dialogue from devs back then they clearly wanted to and had every intention of balancing the classes to the best of their ability. So what happened with Enchanter? Did they actually perceive it as balanced, or did they just not "know how good it was" like people claim about the players? I just have a hard time believing that many of the things we experience on P99, while Classic, would've stuck if we had the same circumstances we have today back then.

We can talk about how OP Enchanters are or not all we want. The point is, they reflect what the class was on live. The goal of the server is to try and reflect how each class and mechanic was on live during the classic era. The point of the server is not to say "Wellllll achhhtually Enchanters were OP and they were never balanced but in my opinion they should have been so we should arbitrarily nerf them here because of that!"

If we want to make that the standard, then I guess we better open up like a million other things for peoples' personal opinions to be used to modify. For example, I think hybrids having snap aggro is cheesey and cheap and holding aggro as a tank should be more difficult, so nerf that please. What about Shamans and Canni; that's essentially a manastone-like ability and the devs stopped that from dropping and limited it to old world only, so Canni should either be removed or limited to old world only please. What about Rangers; AAs were implemented in later expansions to make them much better because the devs thought they were too weak from a balance perspective in the classic era, so add those changes to Rangers please since the standard is now what the devs did later on or what we think they would have done. What about Iksar regen and AC boost; back in the day there weren't nearly as many Iksars but sooo many people roll Iksar now to min/max for the relevant classes, so nerf Iksars please to create more of a "classic atmosphere."

It's just the dumbest argument I've seen on these forums in a long time and the only reason people are making it is because they're mad they can't find any legitimate evidence to try and force a change.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can talk about how OP Enchanters are or not all we want. The point is, they reflect what the class was on live.

How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Enchanters weren't even a DPS class on live. They are the best DPS class here.

Under anyone's definition of "reflecting what the class was on live", it's painfully obvious P99 doesn't reflect it ... to anyone who actually played on live back then at least.

Again, it's like saying Bards were AoEing 50+ mobs in OT and not letting anyone else XP on live ... or saying that they would have, if they weren't so stupid back then. They weren't stupid, and they weren't monopolizing OT: whatever classic evidence everyone may have presented to say "Bards can totally AoE 50+ mobs", a critical detail was missing, because it absolutely was not classic.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Enchanters weren't even a DPS class on live. They are the best DPS class here.

Under anyone's definition of "reflecting what the class was on live", it's painfully obvious P99 doesn't ... to anyone who actually played on live back then at least.

They were able to be, people just weren't familiar enough with the class to use them as such whether due to simple worry about dealing with Charm breaks and/or not realizing truly how good Charm DPS was. Knowledge took longer to spread back then, you didn't have the uber data mining and parsing that goes on today where every single player in the game would know within like a weak how good Charm DPS was.

The ability was there. Saying Enchanters need to be nerfed simply because people didn't use the ability as frequently or as optimally as they have learned to do is just such a stupid argument.

[bum3]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, it's like saying Bards were AoEing 50+ mobs in OT and not letting anyone else XP on live ... or saying that they would have, if they weren't so stupid back then. They weren't stupid, and they weren't monopolizing OT: whatever classic evidence everyone may have presented to say "Bards can totally AoE 50+ mobs", a critical detail was missing, because it absolutely was not classic.

Hahha yeah.. guides stopped that crap fast on Tunare. Anytime it unfairly impeded exp of groups or ran a mob over someone and they died. It was stopped. My father-in-law was warned twice, banned for a week, and was allowed to kite no more than 5 mobs at a time in OT.