New map desktop app coming soon (as long as it's still kosher with p99 rules)

[loramin]

Originally Posted by no chewie dont [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Name and shame

Shame? By who, you, Sorceror and Hawk? I'm sure that will deeply hurt their feelings. Better put out a flood advisory first (for all the tears they'll be shedding after you shame them).

[HawkMasterson1999]

Thats 18 people just among those who have posted in this thread and I didn't count people who were still on the fence about it. The point is its more than just a few or "the same 4 people" as someone else suggested. You're trying to minimize our completely valid argument by saying we are just a minority. If you want to say that is just a few than only a few people are in favor of the map hacks as well. There is just as much anti as pro in here. Maybe even more.

[LittleSorcerer7]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Something you can already do with a simple kitchen timer.


If a program "hit a macro" then it would be a cheat program, and using it would be a bannable offense. And if the program isn't hitting the macro, aren't you basically just talking about playing a cleric (and looking at a log app vs. looking at your party's health)?


You can already get all of that except the "live" part with log parsers that have existed since 2000. Well, and maybe the agro list part, since that's not as simple as you make it sound (agro != just the damage done).

Look, log parsers have existed since just after the dawn of Everquest itself. They have always been legit, no matter who's running the server (SOE or Rogean). Yes we have faster internet now, and yes that allows for slightly more advanced uses of the log, but that doesn't change the fact that log parsers are/forever will be legit.

If you want to "fix" something like this app your only options are going back in time or somehow forcing every P99 player to use dial-up. Good luck.

All irrelevant, you get a map when the gm's specs specifically disabled maps

[HawkMasterson1999]

To use a kitchen timer for spawns you have to be present and aware. With this app (used the way the creator is suggesting) any brain dead drunk drooling moron can know the exact moment the named is coming. Actually, you don't have to be at keyboard. You don't even have to be online! Just open your log hack and see whats due to spawn before you even open everquest.

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Something you can already do with a simple kitchen timer.


If a program "hit a macro" then it would be a cheat program, and using it would be a bannable offense. And if the program isn't hitting the macro, aren't you basically just talking about playing a cleric (and looking at a log app vs. looking at your party's health)?


You can already get all of that except the "live" part with log parsers that have existed since 2000. Well, and maybe the agro list part, since that's not as simple as you make it sound (agro != just the damage done).

Look, log parsers have existed since just after the dawn of Everquest itself. They have always been legit, no matter who's running the server (SOE or Rogean). Yes we have faster internet now, and yes that allows for slightly more advanced uses of the log, but that doesn't change the fact that log parsers are/forever will be legit.

If you want to "fix" something like this app your only options are going back in time or somehow forcing every P99 player to use dial-up. Good luck.

I am not saying it's easy to do any of these or that they are likely just that they are possible.

Kitchen timers are tough to use for every mob. Even people who time phs and room pops are disciplines player who make good group members. Automating this does detract something imo.

Can they stop you from using programmable keyboards? Hitting a number of the keyboard is all the software would have to do. Does not have to interface with client at all, not sure if this is allowed or detectable if not, but I hope it's not allowed.

I think map feature doesn't cross the line for most people, but more and more features are possible. Are we sure anything that just uses log info is acceptable?

I doubt any of this would make me quit or that I wouldn't even use it, but at some point some of the classic intent could be lost by the classic technicality that logs were available.

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by LittleSorcerer7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All irrelevant, you get a map when the gm's specs specifically disabled maps

? You get maps anyways, check http://www.steveprutz.com/eq/

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kitchen timers are tough to use for every mob. Even people who time phs and room pops are disciplines player who make good group members. Automating this does detract something imo.

Your're missing the point, and that point is that log parsers have been around for 15 years. This isn't some new menace that ahungry has created that is now threatening our server, it's part of the game. And it's not anything to worry about because all log parsers can do is make things you can already do slightly easier ... in this case, pressing the "start timer 1" button for you when you kill mob X, vs. you having to alt+tab and click that button yourself (because presumably you're using a timer program that lets you run multiple timers, and not a literal kitchen timer).

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can they stop you from using programmable keyboards? Hitting a number of the keyboard is all the software would have to do. Does not have to interface with client at all, not sure if this is allowed or detectable if not, but I hope it's not allowed.

How about we do a little experiment: go buy a programmable keyboard use it for a bit, then come back here and tell us how it went. You'll need to create a new forum account though, because the one you're using now will be banned after you use a prohibited cheat program ;-)

Less sarcastic answer: yes they are detectable and bannable. I don't know exactly how the devs do the detection (I can think of a few ways myself), and I doubt they'd tell us, but that's a good thing because you want to keep the cheaters on their toes.

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think map feature doesn't cross the line for most people, but more and more features are possible. Are we sure anything that just uses log info is acceptable?

Yes we're sure. Numerous members of the staff, including Lord Rogean himself have stated so on multiple occasions. Some people (*cough* chewie, Sorceror, Hawk) just can't take no for an answer.

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I doubt any of this would make me quit or that I wouldn't even use it, but at some point some of the classic intent could be lost by the classic technicality that logs were available.

Lots of classic intent has already been lost; you can't suck the knowledge of how to acquire an OT Hammer via Puppet Strings from peoples brains, so as a result P99 will always have way more OT Hammers than was ever classically intended. Nobody likes this fact, but there's nothing we can do about it, so we all have to settle for a P99 that has "the closest possible classic mechanics" even if that means not having the closest possible classic intent.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by HawkMasterson1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To use a kitchen timer for spawns you have to be present and aware. With this app (used the way the creator is suggesting) any brain dead drunk drooling moron can know the exact moment the named is coming. Actually, you don't have to be at keyboard. You don't even have to be online! Just open your log hack and see whats due to spawn before you even open everquest.

So much stupidity I don't know where to start.

A) You can do THE EXACT SAME THING with a timer program. The ONLY difference is that with the timer program you need four extra keypresses and a mouse click (ALT+TAB to the timer program, click to start the appropriate timer, ALT+TAB back).
B) You absolutely do have to be online; how could you possibly get log output if you're not logged in?
C) And no, you don't have to be at the keyboard, but then you don't have to with a timer program either (it will make noise that can summon you back to the keyboard).

So either we can all get irrationally fearful of things we don't understand, freak out about timer programs, and start a 30-page long thread about the unfair advantage they offer ... or we can say "hey this has been a part of the game for 15 years and the world hasn't ended; maybe, just maybe, it's not going to end now just because someone made a new log parser".

But of course that ain't happening, so commence with the irrational fearmongering you three.

[HawkMasterson1999]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So much stupidity I don't know where to start.

A) You can do THE EXACT SAME THING with a timer program. The ONLY difference is that with the timer program you need four extra keypresses and a mouse click (ALT+TAB to the timer program, click to start the appropriate timer, ALT+TAB back).
B) You absolutely do have to be online; how could you possibly get log output if you're not logged in?
C) And no, you don't have to be at the keyboard, but then you don't have to with a timer program either (it will make noise that can summon you back to the keyboard).

So either we can all get irrationally fearful of things we don't understand, freak out about timer programs, and start a 30-page long thread about the unfair advantage they offer ... or we can say "hey this has been a part of the game for 15 years and the world hasn't ended; maybe, just maybe, it's not going to end now just because someone made a new log parser".

But of course that ain't happening, so commence with the irrational fearmongering you three.

You're arguing in favor of a program and you don't even understand what it does. Everyone's log output goes to his server where its compiled into one output that goes back to to the mapper client. That means as long as SOMEBODY is logging an event than EVERYBODY using the prog could potentially get the information. Thats how you get dots with everyone elses loc.

[loramin]

If we're talking about the original idea of "you kill mob X, and your app tells you in an hour" then yes you have to be logged in and kill something for it to work. Maybe you don't have to be logged in after, but the same is true of a kitchen timer.

On the other hand, if we're talking about someone killing the mob you want to kill, then having their app tell the server "Mob X killed at 12:00", then yes in theory that app could alert you at 1:00 that "Mob X (or its placeholder) just spawned.

But in that scenario, odds are the guy who killed the mob the first time is going to want to kill it again when it respawns (and thus probably wouldn't even have his app tell the server). And even if he doesn't, that's ultimately the same thing as having a forum thread where people can post "I killed mob X at 12:00, but I'm not planning to kill it again when it respawns at 1:00".

So I guess we have to ban the forums now huh? Damn, despite the idiots on them I rather liked them ...