Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I'm going to make a video where I heal 2 charm classes and do some paltry DPS. That'll show 'em that I was right all along about how Shamans are better than Mages in the 4th spot"

I'm the troll? LOL!

You missed the entire point of the video. Remember when you said you can't use solo videos to show how game mechanics worked in groups? You were wrong, and so was Troxx. You can indeed parse class DPS solo, and it will reflect in a group scenario.

This invalidates the hundreds of pages of trolling.

[Gloomlord]

I said you can't use solo DPS parses as an indication of how well they fair in groups with multiple people doing DPS.

Crede just told you your DPS was lacklustre. What more do you want? You've lost the argument.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said you can't use solo DPS parses as an indication of how well they fair in groups with multiple people doing DPS.

Crede just told you your DPS was lacklustre. What more do you want? You've lost the argument.

Do you need me to pull up the quotes? The post history is still here.

I am not sure why you think your hasty attempt to reword the argument will save you. I was in a group with multiple people doing DPS. My solo DPS video numbers matched my group DPS video numbers. You should be adult enough to admit you are wrong.

[Gloomlord]

I would humour you here, and say you were somehow able to get close to your solo DPS parse (I think you're lying anyway), but then I realised:

1. You contradicted yourself and flip-flopped. You claimed there were too many variables for a group DPS parse to mean anything, but now you're claiming they "matched"?

2. Are you telling me that, when heals are available, Mages can't do more in this situation?

3. Your video was completely irrelevant to what this discussion was about, which is if they are a viable 4th member. The answer is: "yes, if noone else is available".

I know this video was just a pathetic attempt at trying to correlate something irrelevant to the relevant issue.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would humour you here, and say you were somehow able to get close to your solo DPS parse (I think you're lying anyway), but then I realised:

1. You contradicted yourself and flip-flopped. You claimed there were too many variables for a group DPS parse to mean anything, but now you're claiming they "matched"?

2. Are you telling me that, when heals are available, Mages can't do more in this situation?

3. Your video was completely irrelevant to what this discussion was about, which is if they are a viable 4th member. The answer is: "yes, if noone else is available".

I know this video was just a pathetic attempt at trying to correlate something irrelevant to the relevant issue.

You still don't understand what I meant by too many variables. The point of that quote is simply that you can have a group where a Mage does terrible DPS. That doesn't mean the Mage class does terrible DPS, or they can't match solo DPS in a group scenario. This is a huge stretch on your part.

The point of the video is to show you are incorrect about being unable to use solo videos to show things like DPS in group scenarios, which was the cause of the hundreds of pages of trolling.

Stop trying to change the subject.

[Gloomlord]

Aren't you the one changing the subject?

You can have someone doing solo DPS mechanics on any class incorrectly. What difference does that make?

In order for this discussion to finally be put to bed, we need a parse with a Shaman doing DPS with 2 Enchanters and 1 Cleric, and another parse with a Mage substituted.

What on Earth is a video about a 3 man group with 1 Necromancer and 1 Enchanter, where you're healing, prove Shaman do more than Mage in a 4 man group with 2 Enchanters and 1 Cleric?

And if this point was to prove you matched your solo parse, then that's just stupid anyway. You can't sustain that DPS for very long, and you're healing in a trio. Put that in a 4 man, and Shamans quickly become useless compared to a Mage -- who are going to sustain higher DPS for much much longer.

Someone else want to take over now? Jesus Christ, this guy is insane.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aren't you the one changing the subject?

You can have someone doing solo DPS mechanics on any class incorrectly. What difference does that make?

In order for this discussion to finally be put to bed, we need a parse with a Shaman doing DPS with 2 Enchanters and 1 Cleric, and another parse with a Mage substituted.

What on Earth is a video about a 3 man group with 1 Necromancer and 1 Enchanter, where you're healing, prove Shaman do more than Mage in a 4 man group with 2 Enchanters and 1 Cleric?

And if this point was to prove you matched your solo parse, then that's just stupid anyway. You can't sustain that DPS for very long, and you're healing in a trio. Put that in a 4 man, and Shamans quickly become useless compared to a Mage -- who are going to sustain higher DPS for much much longer.

Someone else want to take over now? Jesus Christ, this guy is insane.

I am not changing the subject at all. The hundreds of pages of trolling in this thread stemmed from the idea that you cannot use a solo video to describe how a class's DPS works in a group scenario.

Early in the thread, I created https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E , showing me casting at least 1 Ice Strike per 36 second average monster encounter.

In my latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1Aat1XdbI you have 77 dead mobs, 77 Ice Strikes, and 40 second average monster encounters over a 2 hour period. This is sustained DPS over a long period of time, while I was also doing my other Shaman duties.

I was correct that you can create a solo DPS video that mimics sustained group DPS. Therefore, you cannot simply invalidate the evidence I have provided thus far.

It is now time that you provide evidence showing how a Cleric or Mage will be superior to a Shaman in a four man group. It is not reasonable for you to keep asking other people for evidence, while providing nothing in return.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG1Aat1XdbI you have 77 dead mobs, 77 Ice Strikes, and 40 second average monster encounters over a 2 hour period. This is sustained DPS over a long period of time, while I was also doing my other Shaman duties.

Do you really think that landing a single 675 DD nuke per kill on mobs with 6-10k HP counts as "sustained DPS"?

In the video, you made plenty of other contributions to the trio besides DPS, so throwing out a nuke here and there is perfectly fine. But in a theoretical 4 man group with 2 Enchanter pets DPSing/tanking and a Cleric healing, you aren't needed for anything but slowing, buffing pets and DPSing. And given that spamming JBB is your best sustained DPS, along with your pet and the occasional Bane of Nife or Ice Strike, you won't even be maintaining 50 DPS over a long grind.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you really think that landing a single 675 DD nuke per kill on mobs with 6-10k HP counts as "sustained DPS"?

The definition of sustained is "continuing for an extended period or without interruption".

Landing one Ice Strike per mob on average is indeed the definition of sustained DPS.

This is why you can create a solo video mimicking a group situation. You just need to math out how many offensive spells you can cast on a mob per fight. This is just a question of average fight duration, average time between pulls, and respawn timers.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the video, you made plenty of other contributions to the trio besides DPS, so throwing out a nuke here and there is perfectly fine. But in a theoretical 4 man group with 2 Enchanter pets DPSing/tanking and a Cleric healing, you aren't needed for anything but slowing, buffing pets and DPSing. And given that spamming JBB is your best sustained DPS, along with your pet and the occasional Bane of Nife or Ice Strike, you won't even be maintaining 50 DPS over a long grind.

Let me ask you this. If DPS is a primary factor for your play preferences, Wouldn't Enchanter/Enchanter/Enchanter/Shaman be better since the Shaman is providing DPS, while a Cleric is not?

I clearly showed in my video that the Shaman can do all of the tanking for the pets, so you don't need CH to keep the pets up. This means in this group the Shaman is providing at least 30 DPS over a Cleric. DPS will be a bit higher with buffing the Charmed pets with Avatar, and having the pets attack from behind for the entire fight. I just haven't parsed that yet to know the exact amount.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The definition of sustained is "continuing for an extended period or without interruption".

Landing one Ice Strike per mob on average is indeed the definition of sustained DPS.

This is why you can create a solo video mimicking a group situation. You just need to math out how many offensive spells you can cast on a mob per fight. This is just a question of average fight duration, average time between pulls, and respawn timers.



Let me ask you this. If DPS is a primary factor for your play preferences, Wouldn't Enchanter/Enchanter/Enchanter/Shaman be better since the Shaman is providing DPS, while a Cleric is not?

I clearly showed in my video that the Shaman can do all of the tanking for the pets, so you don't need CH to keep the pets up. This means in this group the Shaman is providing at least 30 DPS over a Cleric. DPS will be a bit higher with buffing the Charmed pets with Avatar, and having the pets attack from behind for the entire fight. I just haven't parsed that yet to know the exact amount.

It’s funny and also embarrassing to watch you cherry pick quotes to try to win an argument.

“I sustained dps”. “Solo dps = group dps, I debunked you fools! Muahah.”

You’ve just shown us that shamans are shit tier group dps, which we already know. And people would rather take cleric heals. It’s safer than torpor, and you also get rez, aego, and aoe stun. Better overall utility. So shaman loses to a cleric in heals. And shaman loses to a mage in dps by a large margin. This is a 4 man group, so we don’t have to settle for shaman inferiority. We can pick the best of the best.

It’s really that simple, I’m not sure why you think shamans have to fit into every group composition just because they’re good soloers.