Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Vexenu]

Your DPS in that video is absolutely terrible. You're pulling, slowing, tanking and healing while casting the occasional nuke.

This is literally what everyone has been telling you for the past 400+ pages: Shamans are great at doing the things you did in that video, and you do a commendable job playing efficiently. But they are not a group DPS class. Thank you for providing evidence toward that fact.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DPS in that video is absolutely terrible. You're pulling, slowing, tanking and healing while casting the occasional nuke.

This is literally what everyone has been telling you for the past 400+ pages: Shamans are great at doing the things you did in that video, and you do a commendable job playing efficiently. But they are not a group DPS class. Thank you for providing evidence toward that fact.

Thanks for the compliment!

You need to realize I was playing with two players who weren't as experienced, and not even level 60. I am not complaining either, they did great! It was a really fun group.

For context, I was keeping an Enchanter alive when they didn't use Rune at all, or have Bedlam. Of course my DPS is going to be lower. This is what I was saying by group conditions changing things. The Enchanter and Necromancer were doing lower DPS as well, due to being lower level. They had a bunch of charm breaks. That doesn't mean Charm DPS is bad.

And you keep misunderstanding my arguments. I didn't say Shamans were a group DPS class. I said they do decent enough DPS in an efficient group, and can increase DPS with root/rotting if the group is just XPing. The utility a Shaman brings to the group is non-trivial, as I demonstrated in the video. Simply bringing more DPS is not always the answer to an efficient group.

As for why I chose to use Ice Strike, it is because I wanted to prove the point that my previous DPS video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E was valid. It used Ice Strike as the example. This rebuts the claim that solo videos cannot be used to show how DPS works in a grouping scenario. This shows that the people who were trolling for 100s of pages did so for no reason.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the compliment!
And you keep misunderstanding my arguments. I didn't say Shamans were a group DPS class. I said they do decent enough DPS in an efficient group, and can increase DPS with root/rotting if the group is just XPing. The utility a Shaman brings to the group is non-trivial. Simply bringing more DPS is not always the answer to an efficient group.

For a large portion of this thread you were claiming that a Shaman could out-DPS a Mage in a 4 man, all-caster/priest group (as per the title of the thread).

But as your very own video clearly shows, a Shaman cannot come close to putting out Mage DPS because he is too busy doing all the other things a Shaman has to do in order to be efficient and bring value to the group: slow, Torpor, canni, spot heal, malo, and in this case, tank and pull.

Again, no one is saying that Shamans are not a powerful class, and that they do not add value and utility to certain group compositions (as you did in this trio). But these are simple facts:

1) Shamans are not a group DPS class, and will never out-DPS a Mage on group content
2) Shamans, while a powerful class in their own right, do not fit into every group composition, and become largely redundant in the presence of an Enchanter/Cleric duo that does not benefit from the Shaman's unique strength of combining slows, heals, and slow/steady DPS in one package

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For a large portion of this thread you were claiming that a Shaman could out-DPS a Mage in a 4 man, all-caster/priest group (as per the title of the thread).

But as your very own video clearly shows, a Shaman cannot come close to putting out Mage DPS because he is too busy doing all the other things a Shaman has to do in order to be efficient and bring value to the group: slow, Torpor, canni, spot heal, malo, and in this case, tank and pull.

Again, no one is saying that Shamans are not a powerful class, and that they do not add value and utility to certain group compositions (as you did in this trio). But these are simple facts:

1) Shamans are not a group DPS class, and will never out-DPS a Mage on group content
2) Shamans, while a powerful class in their own right, do not fit into every group composition, and become largely redundant in the presence of an Enchanter/Cleric duo that does not benefit from the Shaman's unique strength of combining slows, heals, and slow/steady DPS in one package

Please show me specific examples of what I said and we can talk about it. You are probably thinking of my root/rotting examples, not single target examples. A Shaman can out-DPS a Mage when root/rotting. Shamans generally cannot out-DPS a Mage when fighting a single target.

Unfortunately people put so many strawmen in this thread it is hard to tell if you misread my argument, or read someone else's strawman.

And again, you have no evidence to suggest a Shaman cannot perform very well with an Enchanter instead of a Cleric. I am the only person providing evidence here. You are just assuming Cleric is better basically. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is a powerful trio for example.

[Ripqozko]

This is why VQ failed, you have a guild full of DSM

[Vexenu]

I am personally all-in on the Enc/Enc/Clr/Wiz train now. How can an Ogre with 60 Intelligence (literally a retard-level IQ) from the swamps of Oggok hope to compete with a Wizard with 255 INT (god-tier IQ) from the upper echelons of Felwithe or Neriak? The Ogre has almost certainly never touched a woman, and probably can't even tie his own shoes, assuming he can even find a pair that fit on his fat, elephant-like feet. Meanwhile, the Wizard is effortlessly spitting out 56 DPS with a Rend Robe, snaring, stunning, bursting down nameds, staff pulling, TLing and porting all over the world AND TO OTHER PLANES OF EXISTENCE ENTIRELY.

And the Chad Wizard does all of this before the virgin Ogre can even remember what class he is, and while maintaining a levitation spell on the slutty Human chick from South Qeynos he keeps hidden under his flowing, majestic robe.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am personally all-in on the Enc/Enc/Clr/Wiz train now. How can an Ogre with 60 Intelligence (literally a retard-level IQ) from the swamps of Oggok hope to compete with a Wizard with 255 INT (god-tier IQ) from the upper echelons of Felwithe or Neriak? The Ogre has almost certainly never touched a woman, and probably can't even tie his own shoes, assuming he can even find a pair that fit on his fat, elephant-like feet. Meanwhile, the Wizard is effortlessly spitting out 56 DPS with a Rend Robe, snaring, stunning, bursting down nameds, staff pulling, TLing and porting all over the world AND TO OTHER PLANES OF EXISTENCE ENTIRELY.

And the Chad Wizard does all of this before the virgin Ogre can even remember what class he is, and while maintaining a levitation spell on the slutty Human chick from South Qeynos he keeps hidden under his flowing, majestic robe.

I accept your story as a concession that you cannot back up your claims. I do find the story amusing for sure! I also think Wizards are a fine class.

However, if you wanted a solo crew with a dedicated Wizard, a Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Wizard group would be an even stronger option in that scenario. The Shaman can solo something like A4 while there are no duo targets available. The Cleric cannot solo as much as a Shaman, so you are restricting your options by forcing a duo + solo split with Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Wizard. You could have a 3 player solo split with a Shaman. Nobody seems to be disagreeing with the idea that Shamans are a very strong solo class. When an Enchanter does need backup for a harder target, the Shaman will work just fine. That is the whole purpose of the Wizard after all, being able to gather up the group members quickly to hit a target.

You can also just roll Barbarian if you care so much about looking like a human as a Shaman.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I accept your story as a concession that you cannot back up your claims. I do find the story amusing for sure! I also think Wizards are a fine class.

However, if you wanted a solo crew with a dedicated Wizard, a Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Wizard group would be an even stronger option in that scenario. The Shaman can solo something like A4 while there are no duo targets available. The Cleric cannot solo as much as a Shaman, so you are restricting your options by forcing a duo + solo split with Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Wizard. You could have a 3 player solo split with a Shaman. Nobody seems to be disagreeing with the idea that Shamans are a very strong solo class. When an Enchanter does need backup for a harder target, the Shaman will work just fine. That is the whole purpose of the Wizard after all, being able to gather up the group members quickly to hit a target.

You can also just roll Barbarian if you care so much about looking like a human as a Shaman.

This was another sad strawman attempt to flex shamans. If you all want to separate, there’s no group. You just all solo/duo and pay dials as needed.

The reality is even a wizard brings more than a shaman. Nobody wants a shaman being the main healer when you’re fighting non trivial mobs. The wizard with vp robe can out dps a shaman, it can port, it can rip better, snare, aoe, and has a better root. Also has better nukes and lure nukes as well. With aoe snare they can safely pull groups of mobs too. Much better puller than a shaman.

Shamans are only needed in this group if torpor and cheal is needed. I’ve said this many times. No mob needs cheal and torp that is 4 mannable.

This is no contest, I’m sorry shamans don’t fit into every composition. Still a great class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This was another sad strawman attempt to flex shamans. If you all want to separate, there’s no group. You just all solo/duo and pay dials as needed.

The reality is even a wizard brings more than a shaman. Nobody wants a shaman being the main healer when you’re fighting non trivial mobs. The wizard with vp robe can out dps a shaman, it can port, it can rip better, snare, aoe, and has a better root. Also has better nukes and lure nukes as well. With aoe snare they can safely pull groups of mobs too. Much better puller than a shaman.

Shamans are only needed in this group if torpor and cheal is needed. I’ve said this many times. No mob needs cheal and torp that is 4 mannable.

This is no contest, I’m sorry shamans don’t fit into every composition. Still a great class.

I am not the one who suggested the farm crew Wizard group that separates for more loot. That was fortior. I agree it is a separate group type, and I said as much earlier. As per usual, you aren't really sure what we are talking about in this thread.

You can at least admit I proved you wrong with your strange ideas about solo videos vs. group videos. You can extrapolate group DPS from solo videos just fine.

It is time you show something besides words for your claims. You have provided nothing in this thread so far other than some weird obsession with downplaying Shamans for no apparent reason.

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not the one who suggested the farm crew Wizard group that separates for more loot. That was fortior. I agree it is a separate group type, and I said as much earlier. As per usual, you aren't really sure what we are talking about in this thread.

You can at least admit I proved you wrong with your strange ideas about solo videos vs. group videos. You can extrapolate group DPS from solo videos just fine.

It is time you show something besides words for your claims. You have provided nothing in this thread so far other than some weird obsession with downplaying Shamans for no apparent reason.

You have a weird obsession with glorifying Shamans and downplaying Mages. Two can play at that game.

Well done for making a video that completely missed the point of what we were talking about.