New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm guessing you've never charmed in EK before. You set up along the river just north of the bridge. That way you can easily run to zone if you need to. Gate is a great escape tool but a nearby zoneline is even better. Doesn't cost mana, no chance of getting interrupted, and you'll have sow up too.

When you have SoW, Root, Snare, and Invis in your kit, it's typically not difficult to gate. It's not a big problem, or a significant reason to avoid Warrens. If you really need to run to the zoneline in Warrens, just invis first before you start running. Mobs won't agro you when you run by them this way, they'll only agro after the train reaches them. This allows you to generally avoid getting hit/stunned while running away.

When it comes to factioning in Warrens, the low level mob density allows you to easily mass kill mobs if you didn't get enough faction while leveling. This is especially true for a class like Druids, who get aoe and pbaoe spells. Again, it's not a big deal.

You left out the next part of the guide, which says:

If you spend two or three hours doing this [mass killing], you will get to Amiably with the Paineel guards, which is what you would have required for the next step of this guide.

Getting a large chunk of faction while leveling is never a bad thing, and mass killing kobolds is what you would do to get paineel faction anyway at higher levels. You can obviously come back later at a higher level and finish the job if you want to level as fast as possible. You'll spend less time at a higher level mass killing if you leveled in Warrens at a low level.

I've factioned in Warrens before, it's not bad at all.

[Zuranthium]

Warrens should not give Paineel faction, what do they care about some dogs in a cave. Should need to kill casters in Erudin to get Paineel faction.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrens should not give Paineel faction, what do they care about some dogs in a cave. Should need to kill casters in Erudin to get Paineel faction.

Killing Erudin guards is fun. I did that on my SK for a bit.

[Jimjam]

I believe it is meant to read ‘overestimated’ how much faction was got. If you’re not already quite evil the faction is a real drag.i have done a lot of AoE in the warrens and sniping names and boy was it slow for a human wizard (paineel hates wizards).

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrens should not give Paineel faction, what do they care about some dogs in a cave. Should need to kill casters in Erudin to get Paineel faction.

Agreed, game design wise.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... demonstrating that you were in fact thinking of the only invis mana. This happened on page 22: even after twenty-two pages, you still didn't understand the primary way the ring saves mana!

So no, that's not embarassing to me in the slightest ... except for the part when I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and apologized (when I in fact called you out correctly in the first place).

I took another look at this quote and it made me realize Loramin probably didn't read all of my posts between page 2 and page 22. I expected this, but thank you for the confirmation.

Here are two examples of me talking about nuke mana savings on page 4 and page 8:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...7&postcount=37

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would somehow need to show that the increased risk of losing the mob from breaking as late as possible is not as bad as the extra downtime from occasionally using 2 nukes instead of 1. Usually the loss of the mob is a bigger waste of time/resources than an occasional extra nuke from my experience.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=72

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You also admitted that once you have Lumi Staff or ES arms, you can save the same nuke mana with mana free damage clickies anyway. So you don't need Goblin Ring for the same mana saving levels 49+, when Stealthy Ring is clickable.

My position has been that the instant cast component of Goblin Ring is not necessary to save nuke mana, and it doesn't provide a special advantage. That is why I've been focusing on the actual mana saving component of Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel, which is the ability to cast invis for free.

As a simple example, here is my Enchanter getting 100% XP on both mobs while Charm killing with my level 12 damage spell Choke, which costs 50 mana. My higher level damage spells Suffocate and Chaos Flux cost 100 mana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCpsgMYx7A

This video shows that you can get 100% XP on both mobs AND save nuke mana while using spell cast invis. Goblin Ring is not required.

Loramin (and the other posters who agree with him) have to somehow prove that the instant cast component of Goblin Ring actually helped them get 100% XP on both mobs AND helped them save nuke mana. This is a difficult task, because you have to somehow provide evidence that the Goblin Ring did it, even though you can do the exact same thing without Goblin Ring.

[Duik]

You *can* do it and get 100% XP you are correct.
Huzzah.
But the instant cast nature (of the ring) will afford you the ability to break charm at a lower and more constant % more easily than trying to time it everytime not including fizzles, interupts and other random occurences.

This will not help.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You *can* do it and get 100% XP you are correct.
Huzzah.
But the instant cast nature (of the ring) will afford you the ability to break charm at a lower and more constant % more easily than trying to time it everytime not including fizzles, interupts and other random occurences.

This will not help.

You have no proof that the instant cast nature of the Goblin Ring gives you an advantage. You can see that you can do the same thing without the Goblin Ring, so how do you know when the Goblin Ring actually helped vs a normal scenario where it didn't? Ring of Stealthy Travel won't fizzle either, and a 2 second cast isn't very easy to interrupt.

[Zuranthium]

A single video of charming an unhasted shitter MOB and being able to break the charm at an ideal time with a 5 second invis cast doesn't mean it's guaranteed to go like that all the time.

You're also not factoring in the cost of casting invis. And even with the Ring of Stealthy Travel instead, any amount of time spent casting is potentially losing a meditate tick. Having an instant invis is a benefit.

Whether or not someone wants to do the Goblin Gazughi Ring camp while leveling should be based on their mood probably. Are you feeling like you would enjoy looking at the Lake of Ill Omen environment and want to earn the ring for yourself instead of buying it? Then certainly go do it. There faster places to level, but if you get the ring then it's time well spent.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A single video of charming an unhasted shitter MOB and being able to break the charm at an ideal time with a 5 second invis cast doesn't mean it's guaranteed to go like that all the time.

You are correct that one video isn't conclusive evidence. I never claimed one video was conclusive evidence.

The point of the video is to show you don't need Goblin Ring to get 100% XP on both mobs, and you don't need Goblin Ring to save on nuke mana.

This means it is up to the Goblin Ring advocates to provide evidence that Goblin Ring instant cast invis actually helps you get 100% XP on both mobs, or that it helps you save on nuke mana. So far zero evidence has been provided for this. 1 video > 0 videos. How can you actually know when Goblin Ring instant cast invis helped and when it didn't if you can do the same things without Goblin Ring?

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're also not factoring in the cost of casting invis. And even with the Ring of Stealthy Travel instead, any amount of time spent casting is potentially losing a meditate tick. Having an instant invis is a benefit.

I am advocating for using a 0 mana invis clickie. I said this many times in the thread already. You won't lose a meditate tick on Ring of Stealthy Travel, it has a 2 second cast time. You have 4 seconds to sit down. The point of using cast invis in the video was to show that even 5 seconds of casting time didn't cause me to lose the mobs, or spend more on nuke mana.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You won't lose a meditate tick on Ring of Stealthy Travel, it has a 2 second cast time. You have 4 seconds to sit down.

You're not going to be timing it around ticks, lol, rather using it at the precise time to break the charm. It will lead to losing meditate ticks sometimes. This is quite minor overall, but it's still a factor for why instant cast abilities are always stronger than those with cast time. Another consideration is getting random aggro and being able to use an ability without being interrupted.