sk starting points

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am currently winning the debate

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If that will help you sleep better tonight, you go along thinking that sugar-bear.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m glad you said all that. I’m just sad I had such a hard time understanding it. Lots of big words and unfamiliar terminology I had to google.

Optimization needs:

1. Some outcome you want to minimize (or maximize), and a way to measure it
2. A set of parameters to fiddle with

Multi-armed bandits: Imagine you're at a casino with a row of slot machines, which are sometimes called "one-armed bandits". Each slot machine has a different unknown payout rate. How should you choose which machine to play (exploit), and when should you choose to stick with the current machine versus move to another machine (explore)? Epsilon-greedy is one strategy for how to choose when to explore and when to exploit.

Recursive gradient descent: Imagine the space of possible outcomes is a valley, and you're somewhere on the side of that valley. Play an iterated game: from where you are currently, figure out which direction is "most downhill"; take a step in that direction, then repeat.

Simulated annealing: imagine there's a small pond or low spot or "false valley" on the hillside of the valley. To avoid getting stuck there and never finding the actual valley, change the size of your step, and each time add a small random jump. That way, you have a chance of getting out of the false valley and eventually finding the real valley. The metaphor is with metallurgy, where the final crystal structure is a function of the rate of cooling of the hot metal; you add a "temperature" parameter that automatically lowers over the course of the iterations, so that you take smaller and smaller steps with less random jumps. Instead of metallurgy you can also think about tempering chocolate when cooking.

Banana problem: Say you want to recommend some food item to a shopper on your grocery site. You might start by saying, based on the current item the shopper is looking at, what is the item that has been historically bought most often by people who bought that item? This is the "people who bought this also bought that" set of recommendations on Amazon. The problem is, bananas are so popular that no matter what item you're looking at, it's likely that the item most commonly paired with that item is bananas. So you need to adjust the ranking to account for the overall popularity of each item. So the new question is: given this item, what items are bought along with it at a rate above the base rate.

Collaborative recommendation systems: We will recommend something for you based on the past behavior of other shoppers.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that will help you sleep better tonight, you go along thinking that sugar-bear.

I am not sure why you think you have provided anything of substance in this thread. So far you have given us a lot of gifs, bad troll attempts, and a parse that you deemed to be invalid. You have contributed nothing, but expect victory to be handed to you because other people agree with you. If you want to let the thread die, just let it die. But you haven't done anything here to support your position.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Optimization needs:

1. Some outcome you want to minimize (or maximize), and a way to measure it
2. A set of parameters to fiddle with

Multi-armed bandits: Imagine you're at a casino with a row of slot machines, which are sometimes called "one-armed bandits". Each slot machine has a different unknown payout rate. How should you choose which machine to play (exploit), and when should you choose to stick with the current machine versus move to another machine (explore)? Epsilon-greedy is one strategy for how to choose when to explore and when to exploit.

Recursive gradient descent: Imagine the space of possible outcomes is a valley, and you're somewhere on the side of that valley. Play an iterated game: from where you are currently, figure out which direction is "most downhill"; take a step in that direction, then repeat.

Simulated annealing: imagine there's a small pond or low spot or "false valley" on the hillside of the valley. To avoid getting stuck there and never finding the actual valley, change the size of your step, and each time add a small random jump. That way, you have a chance of getting out of the false valley and eventually finding the real valley. The metaphor is with metallurgy, where the final crystal structure is a function of the rate of cooling of the hot metal; you add a "temperature" parameter that automatically lowers over the course of the iterations, so that you take smaller and smaller steps with less random jumps. Instead of metallurgy you can also think about tempering chocolate when cooking.

Banana problem: Say you want to recommend some food item to a shopper on your grocery site. You might start by saying, based on the current item the shopper is looking at, what is the item that has been historically bought most often by people who bought that item? This is the "people who bought this also bought that" set of recommendations on Amazon. The problem is, bananas are so popular that no matter what item you're looking at, it's likely that the item most commonly paired with that item is bananas. So you need to adjust the ranking to account for the overall popularity of each item. So the new question is: given this item, what items are bought along with it at a rate above the base rate.

Collaborative recommendation systems: We will recommend something for you based on the past behavior of other shoppers.

Thanks for taking the time to post this!

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Therefore, the only real consideration left is the statistical probability that you will cap the stat. This is because a capped stat provides zero value.

So your cost function is "minimize overcapping of relevant attributes". That's not my cost function: I will never cap any stat on any character I play, and even if I did, I will have no regret to minimize.

What I care about is what will maximize my quality of life while leveling from, say, 20 to 40? And although we all agree that the impact of starting stats is minimal, minimal is not zero.

So my cost function applies zero weight to overcapping any stat, and instead emphasizes kill-speed while leveling and loot carrying capacity.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for taking the time to post this!

You're welcome! And now, if you'll excuse me, there's some grass in my backyard that I need to go touch.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So your cost function is "minimize overcapping of relevant attributes". That's not my cost function: I will never cap any stat on any character I play, and even if I did, I will have no regret to minimize.

What I care about is what will maximize my quality of life while leveling from, say, 20 to 40? And although we all agree that the impact of starting stats is minimal, minimal is not zero.

So my cost function applies zero weight to overcapping any stat, and instead emphasizes kill-speed while leveling and loot carrying capacity.

If you want to argue the merits of individual stats, you are going against your claim that starting stats are irrelevant.

There is nothing wrong with changing your position on whether or not starting stats are irrelevant. However, you now need to provide tangible evidence to support your position. It is misleading to tell people they are getting tangible improvements to kill speed, when you haven't actually done anything to prove this. You are guessing.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300 - So far I have shown a 1.5 average DPS increase with +20 STR on a level 60 character. This number is probably going to be lower on a lower level character with worse gear, unless someone can show evidence otherwise. I am not saying this evidence is fool proof. I am happy to be proven wrong if someone can bring something better.

I have stated before that there is nothing wrong with picking STR if you want short term gains. Your first character on a server or a self found character are characters that may want short term gains. That doesn't make STR the objectively best stat to pick, it simply makes STR the best stat for your specific scenario. There is nothing wrong with this.

If you know that the STR is a short term gain, and will not be as useful later on, you won't have any regrets. People feel regret when they realize they made a mistake. You won't make a mistake if you know what you are doing and why. That is why we need to have the objective facts.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People feel regret when they realize they made a mistake.

If this is the thing keeping you awake at night either you are a simpleton who faces no real-life difficulties OR are a saint and you have nothing else in life to regret than EQ starting point mistakes. Since saints don't play EQ...well...

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this is the thing keeping you awake at night either you are a simpleton who faces no real-life difficulties OR are a saint and you have nothing else in life to regret than EQ starting point mistakes. Since saints don't play EQ...well...

The simpleton is the person who posts insults when they are unable to articulate their points with logic and evidence.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The simpleton is the person who posts insults when they are unable to articulate their points with logic and evidence.

Usually, logic and evidence doesn't take 35 pages to come to a result with.

The fact that you took that as a personal insult rather than a silly joke about random people fixating on silly things is odd.

Edit: You understand the difference between the literal "you" and the less literal/colloquial version ie "a person", right? Again...not an insult. A query.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Usually, logic and evidence doesn't take 35 pages to come to a result with.

The fact that you took that as a personal insult rather than a silly joke about random people fixating on silly things is odd.

Edit: You understand the difference between the literal "you" and the less literal/colloquial version ie "a person", right? Again...not an insult. A query.

You are correct, it shouldn't take 35 pages. Blame the trolls like Troxx for that. He could simply admit he is wrong or doesn't have enough evidence to prove his points.

When you post silly comments without context, you may get into trouble. I would advise simply not posting silly comments like that in the first place.