i dont always start threads, but when i do

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Bodybagger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Saying Holocaust helped the server is fine.... saying Holocaust single handedly grew the server pop (which most of their members filtered out of <Fresh> in the first place) is absurd. Blue raid scene is wrecked at the moment, and XP bonus draws in everyone who plays here. Without it you couldn't recruit jack shit from bleu even WITH your "protection" which is actually just yall being half the server, thereby protecting them form half the server, but then again you are at n risk of being attacked by <Holo> in any other guild anyways so really, be being in any other guild, you're protected by more of the server.

*yawn*

Who wants in <Horde> the new premier anti zerg, pro PVP, zerg guild on red99?

Exp bonus has been a part of the server for a very long time now. There have also been leveling guilds like Fresh on the server forever, VV, Red Dawn 1, Red Dawn 2, etc. Holocaust is the first guild to be on top that hasn't changed and started to treat new recruits like scum. They are really the only thing that is different about the server right now.

Azrael, leveling guilds/2nd tier raiding guilds and exp bonuses are not new.

[Bodybagger]

[QUOTE=HippoNipple;1780626]blah blah blah mmmmmmm yummy Holo koolaid[QUOTE]

Quit drinking the koolaid man... as stated, the only thing holo has brought if anything is players sick of blue raid scene. These people will vanish at Velious launch most likely.

If all the newbs are coming over why are there new players daily asking about guilds recruiting?

Holocost, #1 contributors to Blue:Red plat xfers.



Grats on all your pixels.

[Akalakamelee]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exp bonus has been a part of the server for a very long time now. There have also been leveling guilds like Fresh on the server forever, VV, Red Dawn 1, Red Dawn 2, etc. Holocaust is the first guild to be on top that hasn't changed and started to treat new recruits like scum. They are really the only thing that is different about the server right now.

Azrael, leveling guilds/2nd tier raiding guilds and exp bonuses are not new.

Leveling guilds like fresh did not exist when i came back. When fresh started it was like a new breath of life in the server, and new targets. I really don't understand why holo does what it does, you guys know that people join your guild just to quit after the gravy train stops. Why not just form a core group and stick to it? Serious question on that, not a troll. So please give serious answer.

[HippoNipple]

Not sure when you played aka but the server has had spurts of leveling guilds for a long time. A lot of Fresh members joined the server because of Holocaust and were just using Fresh to level up 1-46. I know first hand because in January I leveled a shaman and people talked about it in groups.

Just like people joined the server years ago with intentions of joining Nihilum. That doesn't mean they won't join a leveling guild in the mean time. You can't get mad at players for leaving Fresh to join Holocaust.

Bodybagger is just retarded because it sounds like he has no experience with what the server was like before Holocaust but continues to try to tell the whole server how things were better before them.

[Akalakamelee]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure when you played aka but the server has had spurts of leveling guilds for a long time. A lot of Fresh members joined the server because of Holocaust and were just using Fresh to level up 1-46. I know first hand because in January I leveled a shaman and people talked about it in groups.

Just like people joined the server years ago with intentions of joining Nihilum. That doesn't mean they won't join a leveling guild in the mean time. You can't get mad at players for leaving Fresh to join Holocaust.

Bodybagger is just retarded because it sounds like he has no experience with what the server was like before Holocaust but continues to try to tell the whole server how things were better before them.

I started when i first came out, i took a break that pretty much spanned most of the nili days. i remember nili from when i was playing, but not much of them. Honestly, it seems bad for the server at this point to keep taking in people. don't you want more PvP targets? That is why i don't join up in the massive guilds. i want more targets

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Akalakamelee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I started when i first came out, i took a break that pretty much spanned most of the nili days. i remember nili from when i was playing, but not much of them. Honestly, it seems bad for the server at this point to keep taking in people. don't you want more PvP targets? That is why i don't join up in the massive guilds. i want more targets

End game on Red99 is really fragile. It is complicated and not as simple as "I wish the 80 people that wanted to raid today would split up in 4 groups of 20."

1 day of 4 guilds going at it in a 20v20v20v20 the biggest losers lose 5 people that quit, a couple from the other guilds move over to the top guild that are happy to secure there guaranteed win next week, etc. Any guild interested in downing end game content that tells you differently is a liar.

Azrael tried this before Holocaust and wanted every guild to cap at 20 while they would bring 30. If you brought 25-30 they would bring 40. When Holocaust brings 60 they bring 5 and call them a zerg. They will always be unhappy and either stomp competition or give up. That dynamic alone screws up any chance of guilds capping with the chances of fluctuating around 30 players raiding at once.

Throw in not trusting other guild leaders on the server because of RMT history and loot councils and there is a need for a trust worthy guild to stay on top and keep the scum lords in check.

The alternative to Holocaust not having control is not 4 guilds doing 20v20v20v20. That is propaganda and false hopes that are used to discredit Holocaust.

The server can't tell Holocaust to stop recruiting. It has to happen naturally. This happens with a growing population. Holocaust will make this happen over time and it will provide the server with an environment that organically creates 2 big guilds.

[Akalakamelee]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

End game on Red99 is really fragile. It is complicated and not as simple as "I wish the 80 people that wanted to raid today would split up in 4 groups of 20."

1 day of 4 guilds going at it in a 20v20v20v20 the biggest losers lose 5 people that quit, a couple from the other guilds move over to the top guild that are happy to secure there guaranteed win next week, etc. Any guild interested in downing end game content that tells you differently is a liar.

Azrael tried this before Holocaust and wanted every guild to cap at 20 while they would bring 30. If you brought 25-30 they would bring 40. When Holocaust brings 60 they bring 5 and call them a zerg. They will always be unhappy and either stomp competition or give up. That dynamic alone screws up any chance of guilds capping with the chances of fluctuating around 30 players raiding at once.

Throw in not trusting other guild leaders on the server because of RMT history and loot councils and there is a need for a trust worthy guild to stay on top and keep the scum lords in check.

The alternative to Holocaust not having control is not 4 guilds doing 20v20v20v20. That is propaganda and false hopes that are used to discredit Holocaust.

The server can't tell Holocaust to stop recruiting. It has to happen naturally. This happens with a growing population. Holocaust will make this happen over time and it will provide the server with an environment that organically creates 2 big guilds.

2 big guilds really doesn't lead to much PvP, we need multiple smaller guilds for PvP. it will create alliances, betrayal, and sometimes teamwork to take on a common enemy. any game is far more interesting when you have multiple factions instead of just one. Honestly, high end PvP must have been boring until recently when fresh and suave got in the mix. Holo vs AZ all day everyday was getting stale. we need more guilds in the mix.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Akalakamelee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 big guilds really doesn't lead to much PvP, we need multiple smaller guilds for PvP. it will create alliances, betrayal, and sometimes teamwork to take on a common enemy. any game is far more interesting when you have multiple factions instead of just one. Honestly, high end PvP must have been boring until recently when fresh and suave got in the mix. Holo vs AZ all day everyday was getting stale. we need more guilds in the mix.

No one would disagree with this but it isn't possible and will never happen. This is a common mistake when dreaming up how you want the server to be. Instead of imagining exactly how you want things to be you need to pick between the couple realities that can actually exist on this server. There is going to be 1 guild in control. Who do you think would do this the best, can they be trusted to not RMT, how do they treat their guild members, etc. is what you need to look at.

Serious raiders or PvPers will always inch up the ladder and go to the guild that is killing the mobs with the best loot if possible so they can be the best at whatever it is they like to do. It may be to PvP better or just the satisfaction of progressing their character. There is nothing you can dream up or say that will convince a player to sit back and log in day after day as the loser when they can join the winning side. There are pockets of people who just don't care and play the game for other reasons but the majority of the players enjoy progression.

As the number one guild it is beneficial for them to stop recruiting once they know they have a clear advantage in numbers/power/gear/etc. so they know they can down all content and have to distribute those loots to as few of players as possible.

The problem with Red99 is that the population is low enough so if a guild wants to have 50-60 online they have to continually recruit just to keep that number steady. If you let up for a month or so you may log in to find yourself with only 30 available and then a guild like Azrael logs 40. The difference between distributing loot between 40 people and 60 isn't a big deal so there is no reason to split up with that attendance.

If you saw Holocaust log in with 100 for a raid there would obviously be a problem and then you would see things get more interesting. As long as Holocaust is attracting new players to the server don't worry about it.

[Colgate 2.0]

every single day half a dozen or more people tell me "hey man i just transferred from blue so i could join up with holocaust. i'm so sick of the blue raid scene." or "hey me and a group of friends started here and we're friends with some guys already in holocaust."

turning away those people just because you don't like us recruiting would be destructive to server population

sorry that you don't like it, but your opinion means literally nothing

[Baugi]

Originally Posted by Colgate 2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

turning away those people just because you don't like us recruiting would be destructive to server population

I suspect it'd just grow Suave or even lead to new PVE focused guilds. I don't have first hand experience, but it doesn't seem like you have a stranglehold on raid targets. Rather, you're the path of least resistance for people who just want to see content. Given the nostalgia factor, lots of people just want to see content.