OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Yinikren]

There ya go.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This shitty proposal kind of did it to itself to be honest.

One system is fair, unbiased, and easy to police. The other system clearly favors the top end and is overly convoluted and full of problems. You can decide which.

I still don't see how its fair that those who put in the most time and effort get allotted the same amount of mobs as those who choose to put in very little.

[Daldolma]

How about instead of creating a system that apportions raid mobs based on the same non-classic ability to mobilize 30 camped alts at 4AM, with leftovers being handed out charity-style on a percentage basis to guilds unwilling to compete, we fix the horribly non-classic mechanics and CSR of the endgame?

No socking, no camped alts, and vastly reduced variance. Make guilds actually race to the mobs once they spawn, without a prohibitively insane variance that requires round-the-clock tracking. When you have guilds racing from ZI and having to clear their way instead of just racing to character select, you'll have a natural spread based on legitimate competition instead of rewarding time inputs and sheer size.

Fixing this with "agreements" is just socialism. Fix the mechanics and the rules and you'll have legitimate competition and fair access for all guilds.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about instead of creating a system that apportions raid mobs based on the same non-classic ability to mobilize 30 camped alts at 4AM, with leftovers being handed out charity-style on a percentage basis to guilds unwilling to compete, we fix the horribly non-classic mechanics and CSR of the endgame?

No socking, no camped alts, and vastly reduced variance. Make guilds actually race to the mobs once they spawn, without a prohibitively insane variance that requires round-the-clock tracking. When you have guilds racing from ZI and having to clear their way instead of just racing to character select, you'll have a natural spread based on legitimate competition instead of rewarding time inputs and sheer size.

Fixing this with "agreements" is just socialism. Fix the mechanics and the rules and you'll have legitimate competition and fair access for all guilds.

Staff have stated on multiple occasions that they aren't fixing the mechanics. See the repops thread.

[Hailto]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about instead of creating a system that apportions raid mobs based on the same non-classic ability to mobilize 30 camped alts at 4AM, with leftovers being handed out charity-style on a percentage basis to guilds unwilling to compete, we fix the horribly non-classic mechanics and CSR of the endgame?

No socking, no camped alts, and vastly reduced variance. Make guilds actually race to the mobs once they spawn, without a prohibitively insane variance that requires round-the-clock tracking. When you have guilds racing from ZI and having to clear their way instead of just racing to character select, you'll have a natural spread based on legitimate competition instead of rewarding time inputs and sheer size.

Fixing this with "agreements" is just socialism. Fix the mechanics and the rules and you'll have legitimate competition and fair access for all guilds.

Reasonable post, but you're forgetting the people that are having the biggest problem with this are upset because they want free uncontested mobs, not a more fair competitive playing field.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Hailto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reasonable post, but you're forgetting the people that are having the biggest problem with this are upset because they want free uncontested mobs, not a more fair competitive playing field.

They want free uncontested mobs because the idea of a "contested mob" on P99 is totally ridiculous and unreasonable for anyone not willing to receive text messages about pixel dragons at 4AM on a Tuesday. That is NOT classic and not what anyone on a classic EverQuest server signed up for. So they'll take uncontested as it's the only way they can even see the classic content they're here for.

The idea of competition in the endgame on this server is a farce. Logging in fully buffed at the kill zone and killing trivial content within 7 minutes of its spawn time is not competition. It's a race, sure, but not one that requires any ability whatsoever beyond hitting "enter world" and pounding a macro.

Classic rewarded competence, organization, and mobilization. P99 rewards time investment and size. That's the problem. Everything else is window dressing.

[Hailto]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They want free uncontested mobs because the idea of a "contested mob" on P99 is totally ridiculous and unreasonable for anyone not willing to receive text messages about pixel dragons at 4AM on a Tuesday. That is NOT classic and not what anyone on a classic EverQuest server signed up for. So they'll take uncontested as it's the only way they can even see the classic content they're here for.

The idea of competition in the endgame on this server is a farce. Logging in fully buffed at the kill zone and killing trivial content within 7 minutes of its spawn time is not competition. It's a race, sure, but not one that requires any ability whatsoever beyond hitting "enter world" and pounding a macro.

Classic rewarded competence, organization, and mobilization. P99 rewards time investment and size. That's the problem. Everything else is window dressing.

So you think disallowing guilds to camp out alts at targets is going to change anything? The more organized guilds will out mobilize from the bind points because they will still be the ones getting the batphones. If you increase spawn frequency, the top guilds are still going to get the lions share anyway. People are bitching about this because they want free mobs, not contested ones.

[Reguiy]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about instead of creating a system that apportions raid mobs based on the same non-classic ability to mobilize 30 camped alts at 4AM, with leftovers being handed out charity-style on a percentage basis to guilds unwilling to compete, we fix the horribly non-classic mechanics and CSR of the endgame?

No socking, no camped alts, and vastly reduced variance. Make guilds actually race to the mobs once they spawn, without a prohibitively insane variance that requires round-the-clock tracking. When you have guilds racing from ZI and having to clear their way instead of just racing to character select, you'll have a natural spread based on legitimate competition instead of rewarding time inputs and sheer size.

Fixing this with "agreements" is just socialism. Fix the mechanics and the rules and you'll have legitimate competition and fair access for all guilds.

There are a lot of problems with this. Trains would run rampant. There would need to be a specific place to engage. Then trains would still run rampant. Then there would be tons of leapfrogging. Then you would have to have a no leapfrog clause. If you had no leapfrogging, then you would have to have a rule where a guild had to legitimately clear. Then there would be no real way to regulate who was "clearing first." blah blah etc etc. You get the idea.

In summary, changing the spot where people will poopsock and log out alt armies wont help anything.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Reguiy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a lot of problems with this. Trains would run rampant. There would need to be a specific place to engage. Then trains would still run rampant. Then there would be tons of leapfrogging. Then you would have to have a no leapfrog clause. If you had no leapfrogging, then you would have to have a rule where a guild had to legitimately clear. Then there would be no real way to regulate who was "clearing first." blah blah etc etc. You get the idea.

In summary, changing the spot where people will poopsock and log out alt armies wont help anything.

Leapfrogging is classic EQ raiding. If you don't like leapfrogging, you don't like competition and you don't like EverQuest. Training was a pretty regular occurrence, too. Egregiously intentional training was punished, but most of the time, it was pretty much self-policing. Unless you wanted to be trained in return, you did your best to avoid training others.

None of the things you mention are actual problems. That's raiding. That's competition.

Trying to fix classic EverQuest raiding is what got the server into this mess.

[Yinikren]

Everyone is killing 3 things a week because that's what happens when you get asked to share mobs with 6 other guilds.

Problem, math? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]