religion

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just explained it. I suspect the gap between our intellects is hindering our communication. I'll repeat myself for your benefit, but just this once:

Morality is a concept, not a trait.

Concepts are invented, not evolved.

Your conceptualization of morality is arbitrary.

Your premise is flawed from the very fucking outset -- the epitome of the Creationist.

So in your view evolution can account for morality. However you also state that morality is a concept that is invented and not evolved, thus negating your claim of morality evolving by evolutionary means. After all only genetic traits are passed along to future generations, not invented concepts like morality.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So in your view evolution can account for morality. However you also state that morality is a concept that is invented and not evolved, thus negating your claim of morality evolving by evolutionary means. After all only genetic traits are passed along to future generations, not invented concepts like morality.

Follow along now...

The evolutionary process created humans. Humans have concepts. Human's pass concepts down through societies. Concepts change/evolve as humans refine or disregard them with each successive generation.

[Barkingturtle]

I want you to try that again. Take some time, organize your thoughts, maybe even examine them, then try again.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want you to try that again. Take some time, organize your thoughts, maybe even examine them, then try again.

Ok maybe I will be more simple and clear for you then you can understand.

You claim morality is a concept. Concepts are acquired and not hereditary.

Religion/worship is a concept it is the not hereditary but acquired.

However morality unlike religion is universally immutable to the human family regardless of your concept of religion/worship.

Example: the irreligious regime of the Khmer Rouge killed millions of people. If morality is nothing more than a concept then we have to accept that as their view of what is right and wrong. Their concept of morality. They were not influenced by the concept of religion after all.

Are you willing to say that the Khmer Rouge were in their own moral concept of right and wrong not immoral in their actions?

[leewong]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok maybe I will be more simple and clear for you then you can understand.

You claim morality is a concept. Concepts are acquired and not hereditary.

Religion/worship is a concept it is the not hereditary but acquired.

However morality unlike religion is universally immutable to the human family regardless of your concept of religion/worship.

Example: the irreligious regime of the Khmer Rouge killed millions of people. If morality is nothing more than a concept then we have to accept that as their view of what is right and wrong. Their concept of morality. They were not influenced by the concept of religion after all.

Are you willing to say that the Khmer Rouge were in their own moral concept of right and wrong not immoral in their actions?

The Khmer more than likely viewed their actions as justified. Hitler probably thought he was a pretty rad dude. Jeffrey Dahmer probably liked the taste of humans. What's your point? That is just more evidence that morality is a concept and not some concrete edict written on our hearts by a sky daddy.

Morality is a concept. I can ask you to picture a doorknob. When you imagine a doorknob it may be very different than the picture I have in my mind as a doorknob. Is the concept of doorknobs somehow negated by that? Have humans not refined the concept over the centuries? So yes, morality can evolve through a society and be refined but not everyone has to share that same morality.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Khmer more than likely viewed their actions as justified. Hitler probably thought he was a pretty rad dude. Jeffrey Dahmer probably liked the taste of humans. What's your point? That is just more evidence that morality is a concept and not some concrete edict written on our hearts by a sky daddy.

Morality is a concept. I can ask you to picture a doorknob. When you imagine a doorknob it may be very different than the picture I have in my mind as a doorknob. Is the concept of doorknobs somehow negated by that? Have humans not refined the concept over the centuries? So yes, morality can evolve through a society and be refined but not everyone has to share that same morality.

The point is that concepts are able to be disregarded or transcended without impunity.

Example of such concepts: democracy, materialism, religion, human government, marriage.

You can reject these concepts as right or wrong and be considered a "normal human".

You cannot reject the immutable sense of morality that says it is wrong to murder millions of people despite your own ideologies and be considered a "normal human being".

That is not a concept. That is ingrained in humanity.
But it is special to humanity, it is not found in the animal kingdom.
It therefore is not a product of biological evolution.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

....

"You can reject these concepts as right or wrong and be considered a "normal human"."

You can be considered as normal by some and immoral by others. What's the point?

"You cannot reject the immutable sense of morality that says it is wrong to murder millions of people despite your own ideologies and be considered a "normal human being"."

People do all the time. Whole societies do even. Nazi Germany, ISIS, and North Korea come to mind. Just more proof that morality is a concept.

"That is not a concept. That is ingrained in humanity."

If it was engrained in humanity we wouldnt have wars, genocide, and murder. Like I said before, Hitler probably thought he was a pretty rad dude.

"But it is special to humanity, it is not found in the animal kingdom."

Both humans and animals kill each other. Both animals and humans can live in societies where they cooperate and only kill each other occasionally.

[RobotElvis]

Cannot reject******

[katrik]

Fuck religion..! Yay science!

[paulgiamatti]

It is both a man-made concept, not supernatural, and something that is innate us. Just because psychopathy and sociopathy are also innate in us doesn't make this less true.