Best 4 person all caster/priest group - Page 331

PlsNoBan · #**3301** 09-17-2022, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Admit I'm not a troll or cease feeding me

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I think maybe you read this HILARIOUSLY wrong and that's why you're confused and saying shit that makes no sense whatsoever. This was me saying "If I'm a troll why are you even responding to me? Shit doesn't add up. Just come clean already and admit you don't actually think I'm a troll or just do what normal people do when they truly believe someone is trolling and ignore them". You seemingly believe everyone in this thread except you is a troll yet you've posted nearly 1100 times in direct response to trolls that you continuously say should "be ignored". Interpreting my quoted post above as me "asking for permission to stop posting" or that I'm seeking some kind of validation from you in the form of an admission that I'm not a troll is fucking hilarious. I was calling out your hypocrisy and idiocy. Don't flatter yourself. I get entertainment out of reading the ramblings of a lunatic and pointing out the plethora of ways in which everything he says is stupid. Don't ask me why cause I don't know the answer. I just do. That's why I'm still here.

You don't even believe the bullshit you're saying. Otherwise you'd accept my bet. Instead you dodge the question and spew more bullshit.

cyxthryth · #**3302** 09-17-2022, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are the one who said they are waiting for me to say you aren't a troll or to stop posting.

You have provided zero evidence to support the claim Quoted above, thus it is simply unsubstantiated (and probably false).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are a troll, then I am not sure why you need any signal from me to continue your trolling. Just do it. If you want to show you aren't a troll, then stop trolling.

I am not sure why your post would seem to imply that you believe that there is any specific/particular reason that any specific/particular poster needs (or does not need) to "stop trolling" when you simply have not even provided the definition of what you believe "trolling"/"being a troll" is - despite having been asked (directly) multiple times; can you please provide this definition for the sake of civil discussion?

DeathsSilkyMist · #**3303** 09-17-2022, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't stop posting now DSM! I'm a troll and I need to be fed!

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Thanks for admitting this, yet again.

It is quite obvious, but it helps show how disingenous you have been thoughout this thread. It is why you can just dismiss whatever data and math people provide. You are here to troll, not to have a debate.

PlsNoBan · #**3304** 09-17-2022, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for admitting this, yet again.

It is quite obvious, but it helps show how disingenous you have been thoughout this thread. It is why you can just dismiss whatever data and math people provide. You are here to troll, not to have a debate.

Yup I'm definitely nothing but a troll that should be ignored. Along with all the other posters here. Now please ignore all of us and stop responding to troll posts. We would all greatly appreciate it.

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cyxthryth · #**3305** 09-17-2022, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for admitting this, yet again.

It is quite obvious, but it helps show how disingenous you have been thoughout this thread. It is why you can just dismiss whatever data and math people provide. You are here to troll, not to have a debate.

The above Quote is simply an example of you sharing your opinion of what you believe to be "quite obvious"; which is simply your opinion.

I am not sure why your post would seem to indicate that you believe that you have knowledge of and can therefore make objective claims about what other posters or any specific/particular other poster is/are "here to do".

DeathsSilkyMist · #**3306** 09-17-2022, 02:40 AM

Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, cd288, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated over 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.

Reposting the current state of the discussion:

Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights:

======Mage DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

Scars of Sigil Parse:

Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS

======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield======

3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute.

6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS

======Shaman DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds

Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds

======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield======

940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute.

5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS

======DPS Difference without Damage Shield======

Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total

======Damage Shield======

Damage Shield Parse:

======DPS Difference with Damage Shield======

Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback.

DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS

DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS

Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation.

======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group======

The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage.

According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS.

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman.

DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS

======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group======

This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage.

8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill.

8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill.

DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds

It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints.

For reference, Fungi King has 17750 HP according to the wiki. That means a group with a Shaman is killing him in 59.3 seconds, and a group with a mage is killing him in 49.8 seconds. That means you are saving a grand total of 9.5 seconds per Fungi King/PH kill. You would kill Fungi King (1620 seconds respawn / 9.5 second saved) = 170 times in a row to get an extra spawn. That is 85 hours continuously camping the mob.

We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. Right now Troxx's data is all we have for the level 60 Water Pet, which is lower than the Epic Pet.

It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman.

I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.

cyxthryth · #**3307** 09-17-2022, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please ignore PlsNoBan, Troxx, Cyxthryth, Gloomlord, Karanis, Toxigen, Ripqozko, cd288, and Chortles Snortles in this thread. They are just trolling. They have accumulated over 1000 posts that are literally just memes and insults between them. They shouldn't since this isn't RnF, but they seem to enjoy being silly in this thread.

Reposting the current state of the discussion:

Thanks for the logs Allishia! It is much easier to do parsing this way. Based on the logs the Epic Pet is doing 80-90 DPS. For strong manning the argument, I will use a 90 DPS parse that also had a good number of damage shield hits. This is a mana dumping situation, not a situation where you are conserving mana between fights:

======Mage DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Burnout IV and a Muzzle.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

Scars of Sigil Parse:

Scars of Sigil Damage: 3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS

======Epic Mage DPS No Damage Shield======

3805 in 42 seconds = 90.6 DPS

3150 in 42 seconds = 75 DPS for 1225 mana in 14 seconds (no specialization bonus due to spell being Evocation) 1225 - 200 mana from meditate = 1025 mana lost in the minute.

6955 in 42 seconds = 165.6 DPS

======Shaman DPS Parse======

In the logs the pet is confirmed to have Celerity, Maniacal Strength, and Focus of Spirit.

Pet DPS Parse:

Pet Damage: 940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

Bane of Nife Damage: 150 + (214 x 6) = 1434 for 425 mana in 5 seconds

Ice Strike Damage : 675 x 4 = 2700 for 1000 mana in 28 seconds

======Shaman DPS No Damage Shield======

940 in 42 seconds = 22.4 DPS

4134 in 42 seconds = 98.4 DPS for 1425 mana - 416 mana cannibalized back (Torpor specialization bonus) in 27 seconds = 1009 mana lost in the minute.

5074 in 42 seconds = 120.8 DPS

======DPS Difference without Damage Shield======

Difference without Damage Shield = 165.6 DPS - 120.8 DPS = 44.8 DPS while both the Shaman and Mage spend 1000 mana total

======Damage Shield======

Damage Shield Parse:

======DPS Difference with Damage Shield======

Subtracting 11 from the Damage Shield number. The assumption is there will be an Enchanter in the party, which means you will always have a minimum damage shield of 11 via Feedback.

DPS added by damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 22.3 DPS

DPS added by damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is Tanking: (50 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 6.7 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x 24 / 42 = 12.5 DPS

DPS added by cast damage shield on slowed mob, assuming Epic Pet is not Tanking: (33 - 11) x (24 * 0.3) / 42 = 3.8 DPS

Difference with Damage Shield = 48.6-67.1 DPS, depending on slow/tanking situation.

======DPS Difference in the Four Man Group======

The two groups are going to be Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman and Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage.

According to Troxx's data, the average DPS a level 47 charmed pet with Enchanter haste and a Torch was doing 86 DPS.

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 120.8 (Shaman) + 6.3 (Enchanter Damage Shield) = 299.1 DPS

If two Enchanters are in the group, the DPS is 86 (Enchanter) + 86 (Enchanter) + 165.6 (Mage) + 18.8 (Mage Damage Shield) = 356.4 DPS with a Shaman.

DPS Difference in the Four Man Group = 57.3 DPS

======DPS Breakpoints in the Four Man Group======

This is assuming the group is killing a mob with 8000 HP. The mob in the Mage parse had 8000 HP when you include the damage shield damage.

8000 HP / 299.1 DPS = 26.75 seconds per kill.

8000 HP / 356.4 DPS = 22.45 seconds per kill.

DPS Difference in kill speed = 4.3 seconds

It turns out both sides were right. At least Epic Mages are doing higher DPS than Troxx's data, but the extra DPS doesn't really matter when looking at the breakpoints.

For reference, Fungi King has 17750 HP according to the wiki. That means a group with a Shaman is killing him in 59.3 seconds, and a group with a mage is killing him in 49.8 seconds. That means you are saving a grand total of 9.5 seconds per Fungi King/PH kill. You would kill Fungi King (1620 seconds respawn / 9.5 second saved) = 170 times in a row to get an extra spawn. That is 85 hours continuously camping the mob.

We don't have raw log data for a focused level 60 water pet, which will be much more common. Therefore I cannot currently confirm the DPS difference between a normal Mage and an Epic Mage. Right now Troxx's data is all we have for the level 60 Water Pet, which is lower than the Epic Pet.

It is up to the reader to decide if they think 4.3 seconds per kill is worth losing all the utility a Shaman has to offer. This is if choosing an Epic Mage over a Shaman in a four man group where you are choosing between Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Mage or Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Shaman.

I do agree with OP's choice of Necromancer/Enchanter/Shaman/Mage. With this combination you have maximum access to all camps via these classes utility, while hitting the DPS threshold. You could level up a pocket cleric for easier resing and CHing if you desire, you only need to level it to 49 for 90% res and CH.

You tried to claim:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming your group plays correctly, you will DPS the same way every time, the same as if you were solo.

and then you simply contradicted yourself by subsequently posting:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a group setting, there are too many variables out of your control that can skew the data

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation NOT because of what the class can do, but because of what other players are doing.

Your post claiming Troxx's data was way different from Allishia's:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also Allishia's numbers were way different from yours

Your post to Allishia when they provided their initial data:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the data! I'll get the logs from you a bit later today. Just looking at it here, the numbers are the same as Troxx's data.

As I have repeatedly stated to you - it is not always clear to other posters what particular position/claim/"argument" you are defending at any given time due to how often you have moved the goalposts & edited your posts. This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which belief do you currently hold/"argue" hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Please elaborate for the sake of civil discussion.

PlsNoBan · #**3308** 09-17-2022, 02:43 AM

Short circuited him back into copy pasting cause he has no counter point to what I'm saying lol. He either doesn't believe we're all trolls and keeps using that label to dismiss our arguments OR he DOES believe we're all trolls but still posts 1100 times in direct response to troll posts. Those are literally the only 2 options and neither of them is good for DSM. Makes him look extremely foolish either way. Backed into a corner he resorts to copy pasting nonsense again lol

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Gloomlord · #**3309** 09-17-2022, 03:26 AM

You know what? Just let him have the "win".

As I said, it's pyrrhic victory for him either way. Noone is taking him seriously anymore.

NOONE!

PatChapp · #**3310** 09-17-2022, 05:20 AM

Let's get this to 5000pages