Red99 Stimulus Plan (some constructive feedback)

[georgie]

VETO

[Butthead]

lol don get ina huff about it. people Did actually quit over all that nonsense.
wonder how many will make it thru xmas =p

[juicedsixfo]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anything constructive to say at all or are you just trolling as usual?

We're talking about a way to stimulate the population and you're talking about LOOTING BANK ITEMS. To repeat myself, you're so off – just stop.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no lack of pvp; all you have to do is seek it out.

You guys are confused, or maybe i havent explained myself correctly.

I know i can find pvp, like that guy i attacked in mistmoore who zoned and never came back. But my problem is that i find pve to be such a bore, that any xp loss caused by pvp is a hit on my motivation to want to grind pve.

Im sure theres plenty of people like me, its just for some reason some people (most active posters i ran across, i bet others just quit without feedback) have blinders when it comes to xp death because they want it to stay in no matter what:

Case study, guy who wants to keep xp loss in no matter what:

He starts his 6 sentence paragraph with this:
"The EXP loss on here is negligible. That is not the reason PvP dosen't happen."
And ends it with this:
"But add the slow ass EXP with the dearth of people and you get what we already have. A server with a population that is slightly declining every week (what it will even out as is anyone's guess)."

Am i the only one seeing the logic failing here?

Also since it seems i like pvp more than people who post feedback about this like softcore and slave, they are probably not seeing the kind of xp loss im seeing pvping. I have to hold back on top of that because of it, i should never have to hold back pvp because it slows down the pve grind if we are trying to emulate a server anywhere close to rallos.

[Dfn]

Oldfish, if PvP exp loss is slowing down you're leveling then you are just a walking dirtnap that dies wayyyyy to much. The server can't cater to the blind, deaf, and dumb that die 10x a day. Depending on your level you're gonna lose a tic within a blue to maybe like 3/4 a blue. If you're dying so much that you're losing significant exp then you're doing something way fucking wrong. I've bound camp people for 10+ kills that bitch less than you.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by SearyxTZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I should preface with a few things: I'm not complaining, the server is going to be fine even if this thread goes completely ignored, there isn't going to be a wipe, I'm not telling anyone how to run their free server (that costs them money), and I love all of you.



Cool? Cul. All that being said, I do have some constructive feedback. Take it however you like, because this is just one nerd's opinion.

I'm coming with the perspective of a player, but also someone who staffed VZTZ for a while. I know.... "LOL SEARYX WORST GM OF 2009 AWARD FAGGOT WAT DO U KNOW", right? Well, I wasn't a good GM, but I have always known how to get people playing. My failures (notably, releasing content too soon and caving in to the most-hardcore contingent of players) served as learning experiences.

I'll quit beating around the bush now. Here's what I think would make Red99 a better server than it already is:


1.) THE EXP GRIND

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Oh, the exp rate. The grind. The epic journey (tm Rexx). The current exp rate is a 200 hour minimum grind from 1 to 50. Not all that crazy by Korean MMO standards, FFXI, or even WoW.

There are two major problems.

One, the early grind is simply too slow. You mean level three takes me more than an hour to get through? Yes, it does! And yes, I'm wearing a raincoat, Paul! I've seen many potential players check out of the server after hitting that level 3 sweet spot. My haul of TZT players this go-around was substantially less because so many people hit that level 3-5 wall and refused to play. MMORPGs in general are designed around hooking players and attaching them to their character. When you slow things down that much before they even any armor, spells, abilities, pvp hitlist, guild, or anything else - it's a lot easier for a player to just say "no thanks" and never log in again. Because you haven't hooked them yet, and you scared them off.

Two, the average player level range will trend upwards the longer the server exists. What I'm saying here is that if right now there's a fairly even distribution of players across the level 1 to level 50 spectrum, it's not going to stay that way. Eventually, most of the players on the server will be 50. This goes along with the first point I outlined in that the early leveling experience will suffer because of it. You can get a blackburrow group now, but new players may not have that luxury in a few months.

So what is the solution? MAEK EXP RAET FASTER? No. I realize that won't work. There would be a collective whine from much of the current playerbase, who would cry out that it isn't fair that newer players get an easier ride to endgame.

This is my solution: Substantially increase the exp rate from 1-25'ish, but keep the total amount of exp required to go from 1 to 50 as is by dumping the excess experience across 26-50. In short: make the early game faster, and make the late game slightly slower to compensate. Give several weeks advance notice of when this adjusted exp curve will take effect.

The primary goal is that new players would have a much easier introduction to the server, and a higher chance of becoming invested and thus actually staying to play here. Instead of having to endure 70+ hours of auto attacking orcs/gnolls to get to "the fun part" of the game. If I'm someone that's trying to market or sell this server, this is what I want to see happen - because it's a lot easier to convince someone to try a server when they don't have to spend 8 hours in the North Qeynos newbie area.


2.) STAFF INTERACTION

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If there is one thing I've learned in my years with the EQEmu red community, it is this: we need to know that you're there.

There have been so many false messiahs, abandoned servers, wipe-trolling, and rugs pulled out from the playerbase who just wanted a stable EQ PvP server, that this is essentially permanent trauma. Like children who had really bad fathers or parents who neglected them (sorry, I drank a lot back then), they are extra needy.

Responding to future patch questions that keep surfacing would be ideal, but really - I think even a daily "What Rogean Is Having For Breakfast This Morning" thread right here in general discussion would be beneficial. I'm actually not kidding. Maybe Nilbog does a /broadcast in-game once in a while saying hi to everyone.

In suggesting this, I am not trying to say that the staff here aren't busting ass already. It is just a measured observation of what this kind of community needs: more coddling, and sometimes a strong moderation pimp-hand to keep the trolls at bay.


3.) "CLASSIC" MESSAGING

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Put it to rest one way or the other. One definitive declaration would prevent a lot of the whining over minor details (OMWTOMWTF STAFF OF THE WHEEL WANST MARCH 1999 IT WAS APRIL 1999 IDIOT).

This could be something like "This server is not 100% classic, but aims to stay as faithful as possible to the classic experience".




A couple other points I'll hit quickly before concluding this novel:

Item Loot: I love it, but not everyone does. From what I've seen in past pvp servers (live servers included), it will eventually drop the population rather than increase it. I would consider a less-punishing item loot option (random or restricted) if this ever gets put on the table for discussion.

PvP EXP Loss: Ultimately I feel like it's too minor / low priority to be worth arguing about. I don't think it will curb bind rushing at 50.

Kunark: I'd hope that it's a long ways off.

Grinding doesn't look so bad in that picture there. My gears are getting old, though.

Some good ideas.

Fact is, there's not enough population on BOTH of the 1999 servers. The players have to be somehow compensated. Back in 1999-01, as the game aged, the lower level zones slowly bled population. This left lower level players more alone than in previous times. Kunark helped to better gear low level players experiencing this, but I don't think it's enough in the case of the project 1999 servers. Kunark was made back when the live servers could still push 2000 players online at once. Even though a lot of them were higher level, that's still a hefty number of low levels. That made getting items, buffs and groups, much easier. Project 1999, by comparison, is pushing anywhere from 200 to 500+. If nothing is done, the original design of EQ breaks down and cannot fulfill its design goals. That's what's happening. People don't realize that the rules in EQ, even back then, were not arbitrary or flexible. The rules (then and now) could not automatically adjust to population.

Additionally, this is PvP. That's on top of the already harsh circumstances. The only place where you're safe is by the guards. Everywhere else, you're fresh meat for the taking. To not realize that the design is being pressured well beyond its means is to be oblivious to a sinking ship.

While all of that's true, I'm still enjoying logging in on occasion as a noob. Have had some good encounters with others and, by and large, it met my (low) expectations for the experience. And I also understand that there're some masochists on the server that like everything slow and hard.

Go to the "P1999 PvP Statistics" link in my signature. It's about the exp loss.

Maybe a campaign can be made to attract people here and some things can be changed around without addressing these concerns here, but I can't imagine how. Is there a way to do it without freebies? It might be possible, but not without observable and rich changes that're more than superficial attempts to recover.

Every MMO out there eventually adds freebies if the population falls. Usually a design is dependent on population. So when the population changes, you have to change the game. For example, Darkfall has been losing population rapidly. The game is being changed because of this so that the game can survive in this new state. The question is: Is there another way to save a dying game without reinventing it?

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oldfish, if PvP exp loss is slowing down you're leveling then you are just a walking dirtnap that dies wayyyyy to much. The server can't cater to the blind, deaf, and dumb that die 10x a day. Depending on your level you're gonna lose a tic within a blue to maybe like 3/4 a blue. If you're dying so much that you're losing significant exp then you're doing something way fucking wrong. I've bound camp people for 10+ kills that bitch less than you.

Ive played pvp 10 years ago for a year and a half and im still learning the ins and outs of EQ pvp.

If youre dying alot it can also mean youre learning to pvp, what works and what doesnt. Wanting to penalize new fishes that are learning the game by making them lose xp through pvp deaths vs experienced twinks is whats dumb.

If im dying alot it can also mean im bored and the only group in range is that 3 people group in mistmoore and its them or nothing.

Blablablah im a fag, enjoy your empty server, "hardcores", i told you it would be this way.

[stormlord]

And another thought is to make it EASY for players to know what quests there're and how to do them. I've found some very good quests in qeynos to level up early on. If more players knew about them, it might help.

EQ is horrible with information. Back in the day, we used allah and other websites. But in this modern age, it's just stupid. But we have to make do with what we got. This means making this information accessible.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Caravelle1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have NEVER seen an even matchup, or anything close to resembling a fair engagement. Out literally thousands of fights someone is either low on health, the groups are uneven, there's a mob agro'd on them when you engage, OOR healers, trains, zoneline disconnects.

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've bound camp people for 10+ kills that bitch less than you.

Originally Posted by edt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tried the pvp server for a bit and remembered why eq classic is the worst pvp ever. I was level 2, and some twink kept killing me over and over. what's the purpose?

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even better? Server can retain what it already has if you can stop being griefer tards.

ITT: People bind-camping newbs while alt-tabbed out to make posts wondering why the population is dwindling.

[Scrooge]

If you're having trouble finding groups in the area you're in, then try other parts of the world, simple as that.