Potential financial chaos in the near future

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Big_Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really are a retard if you think the scientific method has somehow rendered spirituality a farce.

You and Luminari will never agree because you're two sides of the same spiritually vacant coin. The person who lets state religion sheathed in "this book is real old so it's literally true" trump what he can physically and literally observe to be true, and the person who thinks disproving that interpretation of the Bible means rendering all spiritual study null and void, are the same unthinking cretin marinated in two different flavors of useful ignorance.

Nobody with an actual connection to spirituality believes there is a literal cloudy gate to heaven with a literal Saint Peter waiting there to talk to your humanoid-shaped spirit like in Bruce Almighty. Christian or otherwise. Don't pat yourself so hard on the head over figuring out the same that you give yourself brain damage.

^ This. Faith/spirituality exist outside the jurisdiction of science since the concepts cannot be tested. This applies to the disbelief in any god just as it does to the beliefs therein since the means to test/validate either claim are inherently not a part of the observable natural world.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Faith/spirituality exist outside the jurisdiction of science since the concepts cannot be tested. This applies to the disbelief in any god just as it does to the beliefs therein since the means to test/validate either claim are inherently not a part of the observable natural world.

Belief in mysticism cannot be intelligently justified. Why do you think it's experiencing such a steep decline? You don't have to specifically discredit one particular cult or heathen group to figure it out. The problem is that there are so many varying beliefs and stories obfuscating the entire spectrum. Which one is right? Deductive logic would indicate none of them are right.

Least of all the ones that say eating shellfish is a sin. Or that we should stone children. Or we should cast our wives into the woods while they bleed. What the fuck.

Religion is nuts.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Belief in mysticism cannot be intelligently justified. Why do you think it's experiencing such a steep decline? You don't have to specifically discredit one particular cult or heathen group to figure it out. The problem is that there are so many varying beliefs and stories obfuscating the entire spectrum. Which one is right? Deductive logic would indicate none of them are right.

Least of all the ones that say eating shellfish is a sin. Or that we should stone children. Or we should cast our wives into the woods while they bleed. What the fuck.

Religion is nuts.

Reason and faith are inherently mutually exclusive. The reason for decline in faith is because 1. society has placed the two at odds and 2. most people find it extraordinarily difficult to believe one thing that might conflict with another thing that they know to be true. So rather than risk the consequences of abandoning the faith of which they have been indoctrinated throughout their life, they reject the knowledge.

It is a matter of simple human nature. Free thinkers are an extraordinary rarity. Most people surrender their minds to the pre-established ideologies contrived of others to simplify/expedite decision making because they lack the time, will or capacity to do so themselves. This applies to all ideology. The moment self is associated with an idea is the moment it has been lost.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reason and faith are inherently mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

most people find it extraordinarily difficult to believe one thing that might conflict with another thing that they know to be true.

These two statements contradict each other. If religion says one thing that conflicts with something else that can be known to be true, then the two cannot be mutually exclusive.

[perrier]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reason and faith are inherently mutually exclusive. The reason for decline in faith is because 1. society has placed the two at odds

I think that your first sentence clearly demonstrates why the second is only part true. It isn't that society has placed the two at odds, its more that as you indicated they are mutually exclusive of one another.

That said, there need not necessarily be overlap and the two can coexist peacefully and for the most part do.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These two statements contradict each other. If religion says one thing that conflicts with something else that can be known to be true, then the two cannot be mutually exclusive.

Faith is belief without proof or reason, so there is no problem with believing something contrary to what is known. It is a matter of choice.

It is a simple concept, but as you have demonstrated it is not easily grasped by most, especially those of faith whom you despise.

It is not the concepts themselves that are flawed. Rather it is the understanding of them that is often incorrect.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is a matter of choice.

A choice to be ignorant? Pass.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A choice to be ignorant? Pass.

No, because you'd still know and accept reason/knowledge. You'd just choose to believe something additional. Unfounded? Yes. Wrong? Indeterminate.

Again, most people view faith/reason as binary alternatives. They're not.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you'd still know and accept reason/knowledge.

Expect militant Christians don't accept reason. See: Luminari.

Hell, militant factions of any sect do not accept reason. Many of them flat our reject it.

Look at the idiots in the Middle East throwing the entire region back to the stone age by destroying any cultural centers that aren't their own. All done in the name of God.

That's not accepting of anything.

[maskedmelon]

I agree and that is the problem with treating reason and faith as competing alternatives, which they are doing. Leaders of faith need to realize and propagate the understanding that the two are not alternatives. In the end it assures the longevity of their beliefs without stifling advancement.