Upcoming change to class epics

[Messie]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still waiting for the greenlight.

Post something or shhh!

[Cecily]

Once upon a time, rogues were a fairly rare class on P99. Very hard class to start out with and expensive to gear. Impossible to solo and also poor unless you got lucky on 1 in 6 rolls. The only people playing rogues were those who loved the class for what it was, flaws and all. Low level MQs completely changed that demographic.

Rogues became a twink class which anyone with a large chunk of plat could roll a level one with a fungi and solo to 50. Many were originally solo casters and awful at playing a melee. Lazy players who'd AFK all the time while acting like you were lucky to have them. I guess you were if they'd actually pay attention and backstab, of course then they'd be tanking. God help them if they didn't have a fungi, because no sub-50 warrior had a snowballs chance in hell to hold agro off them. Which lead to these twinks having no concept of agro control when they hit Sebilis.

Probably the worst thing to come of it was the rampant discrimination faced by any poor rogue without an epic. Plenty of people got denied groups because the population got so used to rogues twinks. And if you did get a group you caught shit about not having it. The whole thing was a disaster. MQs made a joke of my class and broke the low level game. Good riddance.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once upon a time, rogues were a fairly rare class on P99. Very hard class to start out with and expensive to gear. Impossible to solo and also poor unless you got lucky on 1 in 6 rolls. The only people playing rogues were those who loved the class for what it was, flaws and all. Low level MQs completely changed that demographic.

Rogues became a twink class which anyone with a large chunk of plat could roll a level one with a fungi and solo to 50. Many were originally solo casters and awful at playing a melee. Lazy players who'd AFK all the time while acting like you were lucky to have them. I guess you were if they'd actually pay attention and backstab, of course then they'd be tanking. God help them if they didn't have a fungi, because no sub-50 warrior had a snowballs chance in hell to hold agro off them. Which lead to these twinks having no concept of agro control when they hit Sebilis.

Probably the worst thing to come of it was the rampant discrimination faced by any poor rogue without an epic. Plenty of people got denied groups because the population got so used to rogues twinks. And if you did get a group you caught shit about not having it. The whole thing was a disaster. MQs made a joke of my class and broke the low level game. Good riddance.

So let me get this right. Because some people are douche bags, you think that makes this okay to nerf all epics? Is this really your best reason/argument against people that can, having a ragebringer, spear of fate, sprinkler, celestial fists?

Seriously? Tell me you have something better.

edit - Also what makes you think the same douchebaggery wont exist at lv 46 for rogues without epics? Oh wait it wont solve that, just delay it.

[Cecily]

No. It's ok to nerf epics MQ because it was a game breaking feature that needed to be dealt with on our server. 3 out of those 4 epics you mention don't allow their effects to be used until level 50, so maybe that's an indication of what level those items were meant for? If the MQ market had been remotely similar on live to what it was here, it would have been nerfed similarly in the interest of preserving low level balance.

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So when they do this, do you not foresee the issue of every rogue using the same next best weapon until 46, thus making your weapon progression idea moot? I guess you already thought of that right?

Well. You see. The thing is. There isn't an easily obtainable next best weapon in Velious. There's a huge difference in supply. Rogue epics were ubiquitous, being only subject to 8 hour bottle necks, making 3 new epics per day possible and for quite a long time on this server those 3 were being made by farmers. Made it pretty damn easy to find one to buy.

"Next best" weapons in Velious are rare drops off of difficult mobs. You're not going to find one casually tunnel questing. You probably WILL find an acceptable alternative, however, and will appreciate your upgrade more when you can finally afford / find it.

You're not going to see every baby rogue in the game using a Salindrite, HoH, or Exquisite Velium Spear. Ever.

[ergo]

Damn I forgot another problem you seem to ignoring or have overlooked which is more my situation. Instead of at least grouping and helping 5 other people get exp, and learning the class (at least some what), now I will just pay to get PLed to 46 so I can use the epics anyway.

So the real losers are people that could benefit for the extra dps of a twinked rogue and the winners are the bards and druid offering PL services.

People are still going to suck at rogue because now they have zero incentive to group and just pay a little extra to have their chars delivered to them at 46 with epic in hand.

Tada nothing fixed. This is the rogue situation you and the devs are creating. Glad it addresses zero of your concerns! Good riddance! Keep up the good work devs.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damn I forgot another problem you seem to ignoring or have overlooked which is more my situation. Instead of at least grouping and helping 5 other people get exp, and learning the class (at least some what), now I will just pay to get PLed to 46 so I can use the epics anyway.

So the real losers are people that could benefit for the extra dps of a twinked rogue and the winners are the bards and druid offering PL services.

People are still going to suck at rogue because now they have zero incentive to group and just pay a little extra to have their chars delivered to them at 46 with epic in hand.

Tada nothing fixed. This is the rogue situation you and the devs are creating. Glad it addresses zero of your concerns! Good riddance! Keep up the good work devs.

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lazy players who'd AFK all the time while acting like you were lucky to have them.

Wow. You're a perfect representation of this phenomenon. Haha.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow. You're a perfect representation of this phenomenon. Haha.

That is fine if you feel that way. But that doesnt address your concerns nor solve the problem you say I am part of. This change will do nothing. It will however make it worse and that was my point.

[ergo]

No. It's ok to nerf epics MQ because it was a game breaking feature that needed to be dealt with on our server. 3 out of those 4 epics you mention don't allow their effects to be used until level 50, so maybe that's an indication of what level those items were meant for?

Indeed, so lets nerf all items that have a proc that does not work until X level for the exact same reason no? You don't get to wield any weapon with a proc unless you are at the level the works.

Do you see the problem with your logic now? The fact that it is a quest is irrelevant. The fact that it can be MQ'd is irrelevant. If the items are not supposed to be acquired because the effects do not work, then all procing weapons should be treated the same way.

I am for this - as it is would be equal - at least.

You're not going to see every baby rogue in the game using a Salindrite, HoH, or Exquisite Velium Spear. Ever.

I guess you underestimate the power of bored people on p99. Also if people could farm those 3 per day, I assure you, they would be just as common.

[JDFriend99]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed, so lets nerf all items that have a proc that does not work until X level for the exact same reason no? You don't get to wield any weapon with a proc unless you are at the level the works.

Do you see the problem with your logic now? The fact that it is a quest is irrelevant. The fact that it can be MQ'd is irrelevant. If the items are not supposed to be acquired because the effects do not work, then all procing weapons should be treated the same way.

I am for this - as it is would be equal - at least.



I guess you underestimate the power of bored people on p99. Also if people could farm those 3 per day, I assure you, they would be just as common.

This isn't one of the brightest retorts ive ever set eyes upon.

Making every epic a 46+ questline to equip the item rewarded is damn good. You cannot go and compare a drop item bought in EC with an item quested that is designed to be best in slot. Please rethinj these arguments...

[ergo]

Originally Posted by JDFriend99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't one of the brightest retorts ive ever set eyes upon.

Making every epic a 46+ questline to equip the item rewarded is damn good. You cannot go and compare a drop item bought in EC with an item quested that is designed to be best in slot. Please rethinj these arguments...

Actually I can. The point was - epics should be nerfed because you cant use the effect on them before 46.

You cannot use the effect of proc weapons for the same reason. It is not designed to work before that level, so clearly the item is, by design, not for anyone under that level, if you use the same reasoning given above.

I am sorry you failed to see this. It does not matter how the item is obtained, if the item does not work before X level, then it shouldn't be equiped, if you use the same reasoning.

I am simply applying her logic and reason to other items based on the identical criteria.