Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Toxigen]

3rd enc
mage
necro/druid (depending on if you want to do undead or animal charm dungeons)
shaman
wizard
2nd cleric

thats how it goes in order from most to least gudder caster/priest only 4th with enc/enc/cleric base 3 man

can we get this on page 1 and nuke the other 314 pages of DSM sperging out?

thank you all for coming out to this textbook display of autism

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't get more kills per hour via DPS, then it is redundant. I find it strange you keep saying that Shaman utility is redundant with a negative context, but somehow when DPS is redundant it isn't a bad thing.

The Quote above is simply an example of you sharing your opinion of what is redundant and strange; which is simply your opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the problem. It is odd to keep claiming that Shaman utility is redundant, and therefore worthless, but the equally redundant DPS (which isn't getting you more kills per session) is not worthless.

The Quote above is simply an example of you sharing your opinion of "what the problem is" and "what is odd"; which is simply your onpinon.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is where we disagree. No group I have ever been a part of was clamoring to have a 21 minute AFK instead of a 20 minute AFK in between cycles. The 1 minute you save per cycle by adding the extra DPS of the Mage is literally meaningless.

The problem with the above Quote is that you have claimed the "1 minute you save by adding extra DPS" is "literally meaningless"; which is of course objectively false and therefore laughable to claim. Objectively, that extra DPS simply "meant" that the group who performed said DPS "saved 1 minute".

If it is your opinion that saving 1 minute is "meaningless", then that is simply your opinion. This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Shaman offers a broader toolkit which can be used at any time. Therefore it is more useful than the 1 minute saved on AFK time nobody is going to notice.

The Quote above is simply an example of you sharing your opinion about what is "more useful"; which is simply your opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why this bothers you. It is backed up by the basic math. Of course DPS varies on a per encounter basis. But in a game of averages like Everquest, it evens out in the end more or less. Unless you get insanely unlucky and parse low for 10 hours straight (which I have never seen), your average DPS will look similar in the end.

I do not know why the Quote above seems to indicate that you believe that you are aware of what bothers other posters, and can make therefore objective claims concerning what bothers them such as that "this" (whatever that is) bothers them.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't get more kills per hour via DPS, then it is redundant. I find it strange you keep saying that Shaman utility is redundant with a negative context, but somehow when DPS is redundant it isn't a bad thing.

This is the problem. It is odd to keep claiming that Shaman utility is redundant, and therefore worthless, but the equally redundant DPS (which isn't getting you more kills per session) is not worthless.

That is where we disagree. No group I have ever been a part of was clamoring to have a 21 minute AFK instead of a 20 minute AFK in between cycles. The 1 minute you save per cycle by adding the extra DPS of the Mage is literally meaningless.

The Shaman offers a broader toolkit which can be used at any time. Therefore it is more useful than the 1 minute saved on AFK time nobody is going to notice.

I don't know why this bothers you. It is backed up by the basic math. Of course DPS varies on a per encounter basis. But in a game of averages like Everquest, it evens out in the end more or less. Unless you get insanely unlucky and parse low for 10 hours straight (which I have never seen), your average DPS will look similar in the end.

You didn't even read my post did you? Lol. This is exactly why people give up on arguing with you man. You're fucking IMPOSSIBLE.

I personally would NEVER choose to camp something like fungi king and clear 3-4 spawns and go AFK for 20+ minutes. I'd much rather continue actually playing the game in between PH's and killing shit. Even if its only for minimal trash loot. You also get the added benefit of buffer xp assuming not every single player is 99% into 60 all the time. Additional DPS 100% gets you more kills if you're continually killing things. There are TONS of available mobs that can be pulled at fungi camp. Respawns are far too slow in this game for any realistic amount of DPS to gain you extra named cycles in a short timeframe. But I'm guessing you know this and that's exactly why you keep bringing up this argument. Because you know shaman DPS sucks and this was the best argument you could come up with for why more DPS doesn't matter. Even though it's a shitty argument and everyone (including you deep down) knows it. If you've been consistent about one thing this entire thread it has been that you try to spin everything you possibly can to be in favor of shamans. Even going as far as answering the "What's the best 4 man caster/priest group?" question with "Actually it's a 5 man group with a pocket cleric cause I love shamans so much".

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't even read my post did you? Lol. This is exactly why people give up on arguing with you man. You're fucking IMPOSSIBLE.

I personally would NEVER choose to camp something like fungi king and clear 3-4 spawns and go AFK for 20+ minutes. I'd much rather continue actually playing the game in between PH's and killing shit. Even if its only for minimal trash loot. You also get the added benefit of buffer xp assuming not every single player is 99% into 60 all the time. Additional DPS 100% gets you more kills if you're continually killing things. There are TONS of available mobs that can be pulled at fungi camp. Respawns are far too slow in this game for any realistic amount of DPS to gain you extra named cycles in a short timeframe. But I'm guessing you know this and that's exactly why you keep bringing up this argument. Because you know shaman DPS sucks and this was the best argument you could come up with for why more DPS doesn't matter. Even though it's a shitty argument and everyone (including you deep down) knows it. If you've been consistent about one thing this entire thread it has been that you try to spin everything you possibly can to be in favor of shamans. Even going as far as answering the "What's the best 4 man caster/priest group?" question with "Actually it's a 5 man group with a pocket cleric cause I love shamans so much".

Yeah as a 4 man you'd want to clear some extras anyway. You've got the firepower to do it, and makes it much cleaner / quicker to pull the PH into camp as soon as it pops.

Plus, spells + cobalt bracers + buffer xp is pretty rad.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3rd enc
mage
necro/druid (depending on if you want to do undead or animal charm dungeons)
shaman
wizard
2nd cleric

thats how it goes in order from most to least gudder caster/priest only 4th with enc/enc/cleric base 3 man

can we get this on page 1 and nuke the other 314 pages of DSM sperging out?

thank you all for coming out to this textbook display of autism

I agree with this list. I think you could make an argument that necro or druid would be even better than mage IF you're solely doing camps where animal or undead charms respectively are available. But mage is definitely better overall for the cases where charms aren't available.

Also does anyone else find it funny that like 3 different people in this thread have high or max lvl mages AND shamans and all unanimously agree mage is better for this hypothetical group makeup? But somehow the guy that only has a shaman and some rough math based on data from different conditions than the question at hand is 100% sure he's correct?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't even read my post did you? Lol. This is exactly why people give up on arguing with you man. You're fucking IMPOSSIBLE.

I personally would NEVER choose to camp something like fungi king and clear 3-4 spawns and go AFK for 20+ minutes. I'd much rather continue actually playing the game in between PH's and killing shit. Even if its only for minimal trash loot. You also get the added benefit of buffer xp assuming not every single player is 99% into 60 all the time. Additional DPS 100% gets you more kills if you're continually killing things. There are TONS of available mobs that can be pulled at fungi camp. Respawns are far too slow in this game for any realistic amount of DPS to gain you extra named cycles in a short timeframe. But I'm guessing you know this and that's exactly why you keep bringing up this argument. Because you know shaman DPS sucks and this was the best argument you could come up with for why more DPS doesn't matter. Even though it's a shitty argument and everyone (including you deep down) knows it. If you've been consistent about one thing this entire thread it has been that you try to spin everything you possibly can to be in favor of shamans. Even going as far as answering the "What's the best 4 man caster/priest group?" question with "Actually it's a 5 man group with a pocket cleric cause I love shamans so much".

I read your post perfectly. You are just making excuses again because you don't like what I have to say.

I personally have never been in a Fungi King group that pulls adds in between PH's. It's just an unnecessary risk for a group of players who is there for the Fungi Tunics, not XP and trash loot.

The problem is you keep assuming you are going to be getting extra kills per hour even when pulling mobs in-between named cycles. That takes longer because you are leaving the camp to pull from farther and farther away.

You need to show a camp where you think it is possible to get more kills per hour with a Mage vs. a Shaman. And again, you keep forgetting Shaman's can root/rot trash. It is amazing that you cannot admit root/rotting is a possible (and used) tactic in groups. JimJam saw this firsthand.

If you really want your Shaman to do more DPS, they can. Just because you keep limiting your Shamans in a group doesn't mean everybody else has to.

Finally, I never said a Mage/Necro/Enchanter/Shaman group needs a pocket cleric to function. They do not. They will work 100% fine without it. However, pocket clerics are a common part of P99, and something experienced players will have. So it should be considered. OP never said you couldn't bring one.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with this list. I think you could make an argument that necro or druid would be even better than mage IF you're solely doing camps where animal or undead charms respectively are available. But mage is definitely better overall for the cases where charms aren't available.

Also does anyone else find it funny that like 3 different people in this thread have high or max lvl mages AND shamans and all unanimously agree mage is better for this hypothetical group makeup? But somehow the guy that only has a shaman and some rough math based on data from different conditions than the question at hand is 100% sure he's correct?

Yeah you could list it mage/necro/druid as tied for 2nd depending on group preferences. Mage edges out when no undead or animals around ofc.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally have never been in a Fungi King group that pulls adds in between PH's. It's just an unnecessary risk for a group of players who is there for the Fungi Tunics, not XP and trash loot.

I've never been in a fungi king group that didn't kill trash between PH's. It's boring as fuck to sit there doing nothing for 20+ minutes. It's not a fucking risk to kill trash with this group dude. With solid players at the keys this group could pull from jail cells to juggs all day long with 0 issues. Do you also not go outside cause it's an unnecessary risk you may be struck by lightning?

DPS stacks near infinitely. Utility and healing do not. This isn't a debatable topic my guy. This is about as simple as it gets.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never been in a fungi king group that didn't kill trash between PH's. It's boring as fuck to sit there doing nothing for 20+ minutes. It's not a fucking risk to kill trash with this group dude. With solid players at the keys this group could pull from jail cells to juggs all day long with 0 issues. Do you also not go outside cause it's an unnecessary risk you may be struck by lightning?

DPS stacks near infinitely. Utility and healing do not. This isn't a debatable topic my guy. This is about as simple as it gets.

DPS has diminishing returns when you stack it. The difference between 300 DPS and 350 DPS is 4.3 seconds on a mob with 8000 HP. It gets worse the higher the DPS number gets.

Having a broader toolkit and more camp options is better than 1 more minute of AFK time and no extra kills.

Having multiple healers does stack, because multiple people can be healed simultaneously. Having a dedicated slower allows the Enchanters to focus on keeping their pets charmed. These are all benefits.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I read your post perfectly. You are just making excuses again because you don't like what I have to say.

The statement "You are just making excuses again because you don't like what I have to say." in the Quote above is yet another example of you simply sharing your opinion; which is simply your opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally have never been in a Fungi King group that pulls adds in between PH's. It's just an unnecessary risk for a group of players who is there for the Fungi Tunics, not XP and trash loot.

The Quote above is simply an example of you sharing your opinion about what risks are necessary; which is simply your opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you keep assuming you are going to be getting extra kills per hour even when pulling mobs in-between named cycles. That takes longer because you are leaving the camp to pull from farther and farther away.

You have provided zero evidence to support your implication that others or any particular other post "keeps assuming they are going to be getting extra kills per hour even when the pulling mobs in-between named cycles". You are not privy to what others assume, and you may post whatever you wish, it will not change this fact.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You need to show a camp where you think it is possible to get more kills per hour with a Mage vs. a Shaman. And again, you keep forgetting Shaman's can root/rot trash. It is amazing that you cannot admit root/rotting is a possible (and used) tactic in groups. JimJam saw this firsthand.

You have zero authority with which to tell others what they "need" to do. I am not sure why your post would indicate that you believe you have such authority.

You have implied in the above Quote that you have the ability to know and therefore be able to make objective claims about what another person does or does not remember. You have zero knowledge of what another person has remembered or forgotten, and you may post whatever you wish, it will not change this fact.

Your final sentence in the above Quote is simply an example of you sharing your opinion of what is amazing; which is simply your opinion.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you really want your Shaman to do more DPS, they can. Just because you keep limiting your Shamans in a group doesn't mean everybody else has to.

The above Quote indicates that you believe others "want their Shaman to do more DPS" and that "they can", but you have provided zero relevant/factual evidence to support this claim, thus it is unsubstantiated (and probably false).

Additionally, the above Quote includes you making an objective statement that others "keep limiting their Shamans in a group" but you have provided zero relevant/factual evidence to support this claim, thus it is unsubstantiated (and probably false).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Finally, I never said a Mage/Necro/Enchanter/Shaman needs a pocket cleric to function. They do not. They will work 100% fine without it. However, pocket clerics are a common part of P99, and something experienced players will have. So it should be considered. OP never said you couldn't bring one.

The above Quote is simply an example of you sharing your opinion of what should be considered; and is simply your opinion.