stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[gloine36]

A very good book on the Second Amendment was written by Saul Cornell. It is A Well-Regulated Militia: the Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America .j I found it to be very well researched and interesting. The gun nuts hated it, but the gun nuts lack understanding of context when it comes to historical studies. Interestingly the conclusion is that the Founders did not want to disarm the people, but they also saw the need for reasonable gun laws. When it came to resisting the authority of the federal government, the Founders made it extremely clear that the only way to do that via armed force was through the state militias, not individual actions.
Anything other than the state militias involving armed rebellion was treason and was put down more than once in the early years of the Republic.

[Lexical]

Originally Posted by gloine36 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A very good book on the Second Amendment was written by Saul Cornell. It is A Well-Regulated Militia: the Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America .j I found it to be very well researched and interesting. The gun nuts hated it, but the gun nuts lack understanding of context when it comes to historical studies. Interestingly the conclusion is that the Founders did not want to disarm the people, but they also saw the need for reasonable gun laws. When it came to resisting the authority of the federal government, the Founders made it extremely clear that the only way to do that via armed force was through the state militias, not individual actions.
Anything other than the state militias involving armed rebellion was treason and was put down more than once in the early years of the Republic.

Read title of the thread.

[patriot1776]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by gloine36 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A very good book on the Second Amendment was written by Saul Cornell. It is A Well-Regulated Militia: the Founding Fathers and the Origins of Gun Control in America .j I found it to be very well researched and interesting. The gun nuts hated it, but the gun nuts lack understanding of context when it comes to historical studies. Interestingly the conclusion is that the Founders did not want to disarm the people, but they also saw the need for reasonable gun laws. When it came to resisting the authority of the federal government, the Founders made it extremely clear that the only way to do that via armed force was through the state militias, not individual actions.
Anything other than the state militias involving armed rebellion was treason and was put down more than once in the early years of the Republic.

Originally Posted by patriot1776 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

[patriot1776]

mexico has among the strictest gun control laws in the world and is in the middle of a fucking civil war

[patriot1776]

Yea actually that link just made the countercase of what you thought. It clearly shows violent crime skyrocketing even on the snopes propaganda data.

[Alawen]

Gorilla Sales Skyrocket After Latest Gorilla Attack

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There you go smart guy. Fixed that for you.

I see you've come to terms with it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by patriot1776 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

mexico has among the strictest gun control laws in the world and is in the middle of a fucking civil war.

Funded with guns and dirty money supplied by us over drugs supplied to us...but that's another argument.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Nice linkage, Gloine. Whether or not it could happen here is something worth shooting for. The affirmation of skewed statistical data regarding attempts to overcome the Aussie argument is nice, tho.

Jon Stewart made a pretty good presentation a few days ago...

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see you've come to terms with it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was never a debate regarding some gun restrictions being legal/constitutional. The debate we previously had, in which you suffered an embarrassing defeat mind you, was regarding gun laws equating to a decrease in violent crime. As has been proven on this forum a few times now, restricting guns does not reduce overall violent crime.

[Lexical]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As has been proven on this forum a few times now, restricting guns does not reduce overall violent crime.

Actually no. ITT there was a wide array of statistical analysis that support that hypothesis, but it is far from proven. There are many other factors that can tie into the equation, but there is a far amount of evidence that support this claim.

[Lexical]

Jon Stewart usually is a lot better and I don't really like his routine when he is appealing only on a moral level. Most people who are for much stricter gun control laws now seem to only be reacting to the recent mass shootings. Yes, these are terrible tragedies and steps should be taken to stop them from happening. The biggest problem is that the pro-gun control side is prying on your fear of guns by saying things like "shooting epidemics" and "rampant gun violence" which is just not true. The statistics have been shown on the pro-gun side with the facts being compared amongst multiple primary and unbiased sources in this thread while the pro-gun control side has been riddled with appeals to emotions. Here is another primary source that shows through multiple statistics that the homicide rate remained constant through the past decade: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/htus8008.txt

This article also illustrates a very interesting set of data however.

Originally Posted by ArticleLinked

Approximately a third (34%) of murder victims and almost
half (49%) of the offenders were under age 25.

It is the young that are committing these murders. Perhaps we should invest a little bit more money in public schools or help the impoverished or how about more outreach programs for these disturbed individuals?

Now, I am not a gun-nut. Never have been and never will be. I see many practical(for lack of a better word) to use a gun and I am sad that my side on the matter is saturated with these crazy gun nuts(See jon stewart video linked). Citing these raving lunatics and comparing the entire pro-gun side to them is a straw man argument and just illustrates how weak the actual pro-gun control position is.