Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > General Community > Off Topic

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #30611  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:28 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 16,899
Default

You're the one that thinks there was such thing as an insurrection.
  #30612  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:33 PM
l0053g0053 l0053g0053 is offline
Sarnak

l0053g0053's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: That one pond
Posts: 326
Default

Why were they so scared?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #30613  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:35 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 16,899
Default

Lol what is that a Terry Gilliam movie screen?
  #30614  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:45 PM
l0053g0053 l0053g0053 is offline
Sarnak

l0053g0053's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: That one pond
Posts: 326
Default

*pretends to call someone*
Hello? Yes, I would like to report Civil war 2.0
Yes I can hold



[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #30615  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:48 PM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 16,899
Default

The left every day:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Last edited by Jibartik; 10-22-2022 at 01:50 PM..
  #30616  
Old 10-22-2022, 01:52 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
Banned


Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 8,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basanos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Given the state of America in 2022, conservatives should stop calling themselves conservatives.

Why? Because the conservative project has largely failed, and it is time for a new approach. Conservatives have long defined their politics in terms of what they wish to conserve or preserve — individual rights, family values, religious freedom, and so on. Conservatives, we are told, want to preserve the rich traditions and civilizational achievements of the past, pass them on to the next generation, and defend them from the left. In America, conservatives and classical liberals alike rightly believe an ascendent left wants to dismantle our constitutional system and transform America into a woke dystopia. The task of conservatives, going back many decades now, has been to stop them.


In an earlier era, this made sense. There was much to conserve. But any honest appraisal of our situation today renders such a definition absurd. After all, what have conservatives succeeded in conserving? In just my lifetime, they have lost much: marriage as it has been understood for thousands of years, the First Amendment, any semblance of control over our borders, a fundamental distinction between men and women, and, especially of late, the basic rule of law.

Calling oneself a conservative in today’s political climate would be like saying one is a conservative because one wants to preserve the medieval European traditions of arranged marriage and trial by combat. Whatever the merits of those practices, you cannot preserve or defend something that is dead. Perhaps you can retain a memory of it or knowledge of it. But that is not what conservatism was purportedly about. It was about maintaining traditions and preserving Western civilization as a living and vibrant thing.

Well, too late. Western civilization is dying. The traditions and practices that conservatives champion are, at best, being preserved only in an ever-shrinking private sphere. At worst, they are being trampled to dust. They certainly do not form the basis of our common culture or civic life, as they did for most of our nation’s history.

To talk now of “family values” is to assume that there are enough Americans able and willing to marry and raise children together for something like “family values” to matter in the public discourse, much less in the halls of power. To talk of defending “religious freedom” is to misapprehend that the real risk today is widespread irreligion, which will leave so few religious Americans in the coming generations that the government and large corporations will inevitably — and easily — persecute them.


Conservatives are still invoking these things as if they are magic incantations that can roll back time, just as they did during the crucial decades of the past half-century when a cultural and technological revolution was re-making America before their eyes, and they did nothing to stop it.

In a recent essay for Compact, Jon Askonas argues convincingly that the conservative project failed because “it didn’t take into account the revolutionary principle of technology, and its intrinsic connection to the telos of sheer profit.” Conservatives, he says, were too obsessed with “left-wing revolutionary politics” and missed the real threat, which was technological change so swift and powerful it fundamentally reordered society, swept tradition aside, and unleashed a moral relativism that rendered the conservative project obsolete.

Instead of questioning these technologies, asking whether they would contribute to human flourishing, conservatives acquiesced to their inevitability and focused instead on narrower issues. The result has been the transformation of society within the span of a single human lifetime, and with it the wholesale destruction of our traditions and the looming implosion of Western civilization.

While it might be necessary, as Askonas argues, to enact a serious program of technological development to build a future that supports human flourishing, it is also the case that to do so on a scale sufficient to save our country will require political power — and the willingness to use it.


So what kind of politics should conservatives today, as inheritors of a failed movement, adopt? For starters, they should stop thinking of themselves as conservatives (much less as Republicans) and start thinking of themselves as radicals, restorationists, and counterrevolutionaries. Indeed, that is what they are, whether they embrace those labels or not.

They might, looking to American history for inspiration, conjure up the image of the Pilgrims — those iron-willed and audacious Christians who refused to accept the terms set by the mainstream of their time and set out to build something entirely new, to hew it out of the wilderness of the New World, even at great personal cost.

Or they might claim the mantle of revolutionaries, invoking the Founding Fathers’ view (or, at least, Thomas Jefferson’s) that periodic revolution to preserve liberty and civil society has always been and always will be necessary.

Whatever the term or image, the imperative that conservatives must break from the past and forge a new political identity cannot be overstated. It is time now for something new, for a new way of thinking and speaking about what conservative politics should be. The fusionism of past decades, in which conservatives made common cause with market-obsessed libertarians and foreign policy neocons, is finished. So too is Conservatism Inc. and the establishment GOP it enabled, whose first priority was always tax cuts for big business at the expense of everything else. The election of Donald Trump in 2016 heralded a populist wave and the end of Republican politics as we knew it, and now we are in uncharted waters.

To be sure, there has been plenty of talk on the right lately about what should be done differently now. Some, such as Sohrab Ahmari, Gladden Pappin, and Adrian Vermeule (along with a larger cohort of conservative Catholic thinkers), advocate a conservatism that is comfortable with big government and in fact sees it as necessary not only for the common good but to tame what Ahmari recently called the “private tyranny” of woke corporations empowered by unrestrained market forces. Conservative Catholics, he argues, should today claim ownership of a pro-worker, even pro-union political agenda that once belonged to the left, and which produced generations of Democrat-voting Catholic workers.

Indeed, a willingness to embrace government power has been a topic of fruitful debate on the “New Right” in recent years, as it should be. However uncomfortable traditional “small-government” conservatives might be with Ahmari’s argument, it is more or less true.

Put bluntly, if conservatives want to save the country they are going to have to rebuild and in a sense re-found it, and that means getting used to the idea of wielding power, not despising it. Why? Because accommodation or compromise with the left is impossible. One need only consider the speed with which the discourse shifted on gay marriage, from assuring conservatives ahead of the 2015 Obergefell decision that gay Americans were only asking for toleration, to the never-ending persecution of Jack Phillips.

The left will only stop when conservatives stop them, which means conservatives will have to discard outdated and irrelevant notions about “small government.” The government will have to become, in the hands of conservatives, an instrument of renewal in American life — and in some cases, a blunt instrument indeed.

To stop Big Tech, for example, will require using antitrust powers to break up the largest Silicon Valley firms. To stop universities from spreading poisonous ideologies will require state legislatures to starve them of public funds. To stop the disintegration of the family might require reversing the travesty of no-fault divorce, combined with generous subsidies for families with small children. Conservatives need not shy away from making these arguments because they betray some cherished libertarian fantasy about free markets and small government. It is time to clear our minds of cant.

In other contexts, wielding government power will mean a dramatic expansion of the criminal code. It will not be enough, for example, to reach an accommodation with the abortion regime, to agree on “reasonable limits” on when unborn human life can be snuffed out with impunity. As Abraham Lincoln once said of slavery, we must become all one thing or all the other. The Dobbs decision was in a sense the end of the beginning of the pro-life cause. Now comes the real fight, in state houses across the country, to outlaw completely the barbaric practice of killing the unborn.

Conservatives had better be ready for it, and Republican politicians, if they want to stay in office, had better have an answer ready when they are asked what reasonable limits to abortion restrictions they would support. The answer is: none, for the same reason they would not support reasonable limits to restrictions on premeditated murder.

On the transgender question, conservatives will have to repudiate utterly the cowardly position of people like David French, in whose malformed worldview Drag Queen Story Hour at a taxpayer-funded library is a “blessing of liberty.” Conservatives need to get comfortable saying in reply to people like French that Drag Queen Story Hour should be outlawed; that parents who take their kids to drag shows should be arrested and charged with child abuse; that doctors who perform so-called “gender-affirming” interventions should be thrown in prison and have their medical licenses revoked; and that teachers who expose their students to sexually explicit material should not just be fired but be criminally prosecuted.

If all that sounds radical, fine. It need not, at this late hour, dissuade conservatives in the least. Radicalism is precisely the approach needed now because the necessary task is nothing less than radical and revolutionary.

To those who worry that power corrupts, and that once the right seizes power it too will be corrupted, they certainly have a point. If conservatives manage to save the country and rebuild our institutions, will they ever relinquish power and go the way of Cincinnatus? It is a fair question, and we should attend to it with care after we have won the war.

For now, there are only two paths open to conservatives. Either they awake from decades of slumber to reclaim and re-found what has been lost, or they will watch our civilization die. There is no third road."
- Most conservatives really don't give two shits about gay marriage. So any conservative who continues to harp about it as some kind of major issue is out of touch

- What you want to call yourself ("Counterrevolutionary" or whatever was suggested) is pretty irrelevant. What matters is what you do, not what you call yourself

- There's definitely some strong-handed suggestions here (I bolded those) which could be seen as gov't overreach, but I don't see any calls for riots or violence. And in order to implement any potential gov't overreach, first you have to win elections

Still overall an interesting find, and it's always good to be reading what the other side is thinking/doing
  #30617  
Old 10-22-2022, 02:15 PM
Basanos Basanos is offline
Banned


Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 1,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
- Most conservatives really don't give two shits about gay marriage. So any conservative who continues to harp about it as some kind of major issue is out of touch

- What you want to call yourself ("Counterrevolutionary" or whatever was suggested) is pretty irrelevant. What matters is what you do, not what you call yourself

- There's definitely some strong-handed suggestions here (I bolded those) which could be seen as gov't overreach, but I don't see any calls for riots or violence. And in order to implement any potential gov't overreach, first you have to win elections

Still overall an interesting find, and it's always good to be reading what the other side is thinking/doing
This is precisely why I posted it, but I also think it's why this person wrote the whole thing. Despite me shitposting I do read a lot about the people I oppose. That guy is trying to tweak the 'conservative project' because I think some of them are aware that they are, in no way, 'small government'. I think what you call yourself matters to some extent or these people wouldn't push back on being called fascists. (I call them fascists, and they always push back on that, so I'll keep doing it) Nobody ever thinks that they are the badguy

I want to believe that the right-wing libertarian segments of the modern Republican party will correctly call this kind of stuff this person suggests fundamentally anti-liberty, should it become policy like this person wants, but I'm not exactly holding my breath on them. Rand Paul is still one of their primary personalities and that dude tucks tail and shows his belly to more powerful conservatives all the time.

I gotta disagree with you on the gay marriage thing, though. I think there's a lot of animus about that and they've been seething over it for years, just like they did abortion. It's a mistake to pretend that Evangelicals aren't a huge force in their ranks. Right-wing Evangelicals can justify absolutely any horror imaginable. They had to brainwash themselves into calling Trump "Cyrus" so that they could cover their asses, but people have been using Biblical allegories to excuse atrocities for centuries so that's nothing new.

Plus, I have to disagree with you on the call for violence. While they aren't the type to riot, not since the late 1770's, but that's certainly a call for violence in the subtext. A 'dramatic expansion of the criminal code'... as if we don't already have millions of people incarcerated who don't deserve it. Who do you think would be doing the arresting of these people this author suggests arresting? The state would, through law enforcement officers. The state has a monopoly on 'legitimate' violence. Incarceration always involves the threat of violence, and being in prison itself absolutely involves the threat of violence.
Last edited by Basanos; 10-22-2022 at 02:18 PM..
  #30618  
Old 10-22-2022, 02:44 PM
Reiwa Reiwa is offline
Planar Protector

Reiwa's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 3,970
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basanos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I gotta disagree with you on the gay marriage thing, though. I think there's a lot of animus about that and they've been seething over it for years, just like they did abortion. It's a mistake to pretend that Evangelicals aren't a huge force in their ranks. Right-wing Evangelicals can justify absolutely any horror imaginable. They had to brainwash themselves into calling Trump "Cyrus" so that they could cover their asses, but people have been using Biblical allegories to excuse atrocities for centuries so that's nothing new.
Obergefell was decided on the privacy basis of substantive due process as invented in Griswold and applied in Roe, Loving, and Lawrence.

That issue would matter to the federalist society, not these clownboat Conservativism imposters. 🤡
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Encroaching Death View Post
Covid is real
  #30619  
Old 10-22-2022, 02:58 PM
Basanos Basanos is offline
Banned


Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 1,378
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The left every day:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Don't mistake liberals for leftists. There is no popular leftist media network, the closest you get is MeansTV. CNN is entertainment in the same way Fox News is, just a few millimeters to the left of the general Fox News viewer. Both an administration and a news network benefit from the populace being under the impression that Civil War 2 is pending.

Check this out, if you think despising conservatives makes me a diehard Biden supporter. I wasn't aware of this documentary before but I certainly want to see it now.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...er-1234613619/

Quote:
Meek has been charged with no crime. But independent observers believe the raid is among the first — and quite possibly, the first — to be carried out on a journalist by the Biden administration. A federal magistrate judge in the Virginia Eastern District Court signed off on the search warrant the day before the raid. If the raid was for Meek’s records, U.S. Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco would have had to give her blessing; a new policy enacted last year prohibits federal prosecutors from seizing journalists’ documents. Any exception requires the deputy AG’s approval. (Gabe Rottman at the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press says, “To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a case [since January 2021].”)

It is unclear what story, if any, would have put Meek in the FBI’s crosshairs. Meek worked on extremely sensitive topics — from high-profile terrorists to Americans held abroad to the exploits of Erik Prince, the founder of the infamous military contractor Blackwater. In recent years, some of Meek’s highest-profile reporting delved into a 2017 ambush by ISIS in Niger that left four American Green Berets dead. Meek and ABC then adapted the story into the feature-length documentary 3212 Un-Redacted, which debuted last year on Veteran’s Day on ABC’s sister company Hulu.
  #30620  
Old 10-22-2022, 03:02 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
Banned


Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 8,473
Default

I’m 1 bub from 56, Rob, catching up!
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:52 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.