sk starting points

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow. I've not insulted you once, yet you accuse me of trolling, being destructive and unhelpful?

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[Jimjam]

Also, if you're gonna throw around phrases telling people they don't understand and to reread your post, don't be a cunt and throw a hissy fit when they reflect it back at you.

Just trying to speak your language, but if you don't like it done to you, don't do it to others.

Also you need to discriminate humour and trolling. A lot of posters are responding to you with what appears to me to be good humour, and you read their tone completely differently and either accuse them of being mad or trolling. Thats an accusation of aggression, and tbh encourages and escalates aggression, as you can see from the start of my post.

But yea, I don't want you to feel bullied or I'm trolling newbs, sorry I came across that way to you.

[rjw513]

“It is honestly sad that people care so much about trying to be right, that they are willing to mislead new players.“

….wait what?!?! lol

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A whole lot of random opinions and insults. Nobody has shown that the STR is giving enough DPS to matter. Therefore it remains unfounded opinions.

That is your guys problem. Lots of assumtions and insults lol.

Your problem is the shifting goalposts. Switching between the BiS cap-quest argument which 99.999% of players will never experience to them throwing words like “enough” in there as qualifyers. How do you measure the net benefit of “enough” dps or the net benefit of half of a life tap that never gets cast and thus never saves your life? It’s FSI-quest all over again. Not being able to prove something will ever do anything but believing it has to such a degree it’s priceless to not have it. Meanwhile strength is a measurable metric. You run slow if overweight, you aren’t as high on a parse if undercapped attack, your average hit literally increases.

Almost every SK could swap out HP gear at any point for intel gear. Often they don’t. Meanwhile a Belt of The Great Turtle is 70k and it provides the same benefit for most players most of the time of being 20 str shy. Especially a small sk who is casually geared.

IF people ever cared to ask the OP qualifying questions (and they responded) to help THEM specifically they could actually prove other people wrong. Frankly you wouldn’t have to because the lion share discussing per clear definitions wouldn’t be arguing in the first place. Instead, this is a general philosophy discussion. I don’t know much about philosophy but the greats rarely sat down in their robes shutting people down that their perspectives were invalid because of a specific edge case.

In the end nobody talking on page 35+ needs any of the “advice”. If we are doing it “wrong” we are still doing fine as is. Soloing to 60, raiding at a high level, or just having fun while not dying. We are pretty locked in our ways at this point and any self-realization is going to be esoterically specific, not some generic realization that attack or mana is helpful.

PS Anyone who’s in the universe of having any of the gear your fake Magelo listed, let alone ALL of it, isn’t going to post a thread asking if strength is worth putting starting points in. They aren’t naive and certainly don’t care about our input anyways when they could be socking rando task-rabbit dkp for their 10th BiS slot…

[Ripqozko]

I troll lot but even I tried having a normal conversation with some good info based on my experience with gear. Sta is not as easy to max on a DE. If I went int I’d be in a super hole. Even atm I need like vulak bracer to cap with 1h.

Edit: all he did was shit on it even tho I showed what I have

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I troll lot but even I tried having a normal conversation with some good info based on my experience with gear. Sta is not as easy to max on a DE. If I went int I’d be in a super hole. Even atm I need like vulak bracer to cap with 1h.

Edit: all he did was shit on it even tho I showed what I have

Stamina is not easy to cap for a little race that raids. Unless you have extremely good gear or are picking like less optimal pieces (low ac or hp but have excessive stamina).

Not to say the 1% or even 5% can’t do it. It’s just good to keep in mind some people are here for the nostalgia, or to group with their buddies. They may never raid or even hit 60. Strength isn’t an ideal place to put points for a raider. Stamina isn’t bad though. Like you said previously having a spare buff slot is really nice as is running around with more hps all the time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The only goalpost moving is from other posters.

First you say starting stats do not matter. This means the starting stat bonuses aren't a factor.

Then you argue that starting stat bonuses do matter.

When I mention the fact that you have no evidence to back up your claim about 20 STR giving a significant boost to DPS, you go back to claiming starting stats are irrelevant lol.

Just saying "you are getting a DPS boost" can be misleading if the boost is so small that you aren't getting more kills per hour. It is unnoticeable at that point.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300 I am the only one to back up my claims with evidence. I have argued the same thing the entire thread, so this idea I am moving goalposts is just silly.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong, or that you cannot prove your point. Please stop posting nonsense that confuses other players.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But yea, I don't want you to feel bullied or I'm trolling newbs, sorry I came across that way to you.

Thank you for the apology. I apologize that I misread your post. Remember that I can only see your text, not your intent. That is why we need to be careful with what we post. This includes myself.

[Jimjam]

No one is going to be confused by this discussion, DSM. I feel you're just trying to tell people (politely) to shut up because they have a different perspective (which is bound to happen - we all play our own styles).

What evidence do we need that increased strength reduces encumbrance, or that being able to carry more will help the character to earn loot and gear up?


What evidence do we need, besides multiple 60 magelos, that show even after years of gearing Sta is difficult to cap (needing PE, or even upgrades to what is already top tier gear)?

What evidence do we need to demonstrate that that in our value judgement a 4% DPS boost is worth while for 60 levels?

You're asking for evidence for things that are basic facts of the game, have already been demonstrated, or are situational / value judgements.

I like looking at Magelos, because they are real world examples of character sheets. We can theory quest the best builds, but it is more realistic to look at set ups people actually use.

I looked at my own 52 SK, Nareik (blue). On Magelo his gear weighs in at 90 (admittedly the clicky stuff would usually be kept in WR bags, which mag doesn't account for, but that is (tens) of thousands of pp investment essentially just to increase my carry strength by a couple of dozen). Thats one squished iksar from the get-go (okay, they'd be unlikely to have inventoried BE stuff and could avoid the cheap but heavy items).

For newbie characters (I'm talking up to a few 100pp budget) a set of banded and a weapon weights about 60. Adding in a few backpacks, medicine bags, tool kits, whatever, 8 stacks of bandages, food, drink, (potions if you burn cash like me) a tank is going to be encumbered practically the start of every adventure.

If you want to argue to protect the newbies, this is the kind of set up you want to consider. 20str is going to help them all the way up to 60, and even after hitting 60 it is going to help them when focus/me/avatar get dispelled or debuffs lands. All +int will do is give them the smarts to have the epiphany that their bonus starting stats didn't do much help for 59 levels!

Honestly, my favourite part of STR is just the carry 24/7 capacity and improved resilience to cripple/incapacitate spells (they really fuck you up, especially if your tank gets encumbered / agi reduced to below 75).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Maybe that is the disconnect. I am not telling people to shut up at all.

I am saying that you cannot make factual claims like "you will get enough DPS from 20 STR to level faster", when you have no evidence. I have actually provided evidence to the contrary https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=300. There is a point at which DPS isn't helpful if the number is too small.

If you want to say you prefer STR, there is nothing wrong with that. Please post it! Just do not make a factual claim without evidence and try to pass it off as fact.

This will confuse players who don't understand the game as well.

As far as I can tell, OP is twinking their character. They will have plenty of STR and weight reduction. I have already said many times that STR is good on your first character on a server, or a self found character. It isn't the objectively best choice, but it is a good choice for that specific scenario.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe that is the disconnect. I am not telling people to shut up at all.

Good to hear, just letting you know that when you disagree with an opinion, write it off as nonsense and ask people to stop posting then it can come across that way.