Lols TMO

[Lazie]

I gotta run for now but by all means post the logs of that conversation. I pretty much guarantee you aren't "Remembering correctly" now all of a sudden. Later.

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[cams]

Sorry, I don't post logs of private conversations between friends regarding guild stuff. I don't mind talking about the general gist of the conversation since it was already all included in the raid petition, but part of the reason I'm able to keep friends in competing guilds and not get wrapped up in all the guild drama is because I keep private conversations private.

I'm sure you can ask Unbrella about it, I don't see any reason for him to deny that TMO requested 3 mobs in compensation. My point wasn't that TMO was unreasonable in that account (although I think you were), simply that when viewed in comparison to this instance, your not being consistent in what you believe is an appropriate punishment for training a raid.

[Pheer]

Intention training will be severely disciplined.


......Unless you're TMO, then its a "rogue member" who acted alone and you get to pick your own punishment (aka nothing)

[doyoueventrainbro]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Intention training will be severely disciplined.


......Unless you're TMO, then its a "rogue member" who acted alone and you get to pick your own punishment (aka nothing)

For real.

What's the deal with the staff saying they will severely discipline training but seem to not give a shit when it happens? OH WHY??

[Fael]

When four members of a guild are farming gorillas in fear, for their own benefit and one of them intentionally does something illegal that doesn't constituent guild action. How hard is that for you dumbasses to understand.

Such Individuals are severely punished.

When an entire guild ignores FTE messages and kill steals then THAT is guild action.

This is not hard. Quit being trolls.

Dolic

[Gaffin 7.0]

tldr

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When four members of a guild are farming gorillas in fear, for their own benefit and one of them intentionally does something illegal that doesn't constituent guild action. How hard is that for you dumbasses to understand.

Such Individuals are severely punished.

When an entire guild ignores FTE messages and kill steals then THAT is guild action.

This is not hard. Quit being trolls.

Dolic

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When four members of a guild are farming gorillas in fear, for their own benefit and one of them intentionally does something illegal that doesn't constituent guild action. How hard is that for you dumbasses to understand.

Because doing illegal shit was supposed to have a punishment so severe, it would serve as an effective deterrent against intentional training which -- with a rational/reasonable playerbase -- would drastically reduce the amount of instances of this happening that a GM would have to get involved with.

Under which scenario is an individual least likely to train another raid intentionally?

a) Well, if I get caught in Fraps, I may or may not get punished, and if I do, it's just me. I eat a week suspension. Maybe kicked out of my guild. Is it worth it?

b) Well, if I get caught in Fraps, my ENTIRE GUILD gets raid suspended for at least a week. They will all fucking hate me, and I will get kicked out of my guild. Is it worth it?

If we're conveniently no longer calling armor clears in Fear or Hate a "raid" for the purposes of rules-lawyers trying to mitigate what happened here, then are armor clears in Fear or Hate prohibited as part of being "suspended from raiding" or are they still fair game for a raid-suspended guild?

I'm sincerely asking for clarification... the punishment/rules seemingly change so much around here depending on which guild gets caught doing something illegal, I honestly don't recall.

[Socratic]

There is a huge difference between a guild as a whole breaking the rules and doing something illegal as a raid, vs. 1-2 people acting on their own and doing something like training/logging in at the wrong spot.

One warrants guild suspension, the other warrants a lesser punishment (usually involving whatever encounter the infraction is centered around, or merely individual suspensions).

It's the underlying principle behind "reasonable" attempts at recompense.

[doyoueventrainbro]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because doing illegal shit was supposed to have a punishment so severe, it would serve as an effective deterrent against intentional training which -- with a rational/reasonable playerbase -- would drastically reduce the amount of instances of this happening that a GM would have to get involved with.

Under which scenario is an individual least likely to train another raid intentionally?

a) Well, if I get caught in Fraps, I may or may not get punished, and if I do, it's just me. I eat a week suspension. Maybe kicked out of my guild. Is it worth it?

b) Well, if I get caught in Fraps, my ENTIRE GUILD gets raid suspended for at least a week. They will all fucking hate me, and I will get kicked out of my guild. Is it worth it?

If we're conveniently no longer calling armor clears in Fear or Hate a "raid" for the purposes of rules-lawyers trying to mitigate what happened here, then are armor clears in Fear or Hate prohibited as part of being "suspended from raiding" or are they still fair game for a raid-suspended guild?

I'm sincerely asking for clarification... the punishment/rules seemingly change so much around here depending on which guild gets caught doing something illegal, I honestly don't recall.

Seriously, some staff member please clarify what Yendor is asking for clarification on. I think A LOT of the raiding player base want to know.