Suggestions For Wizards - Page 3

Tecmos Deception · #21 08-09-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.

You've just proven that wizards are terrible DPS. You need the stars to align in order for you to even claim that your DPS would be insane, when a rogue or monk or necro or mage or ench can sustain great, xp-group DPS with ease.

And also, your sustained DPS would still not even APPROACH being "insane" even if you never missed med ticks, had 2 necros twitching you nonstop, had c2, and had a bard twisting mana songs nonstop. You'd be looking at maybe 50-60 sustained DPS. And looking at that number in a vaccuum, that is great sustained DPS. But it isn't insane, and it required 3 players dedicated to boosting you plus buffs plus an unrealistically godly tank for you to achieve it.

Splorf22 · #22 08-09-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well firstly I'm not even 60 yet, and not even close too it. This is experience from EQ live talking. And my current experience in Project99 which is virtually identical to this point.

The comparison made earlier in this thread was that Wizards were gimped Enchanters. I know how well Enchanters charmed pets can be. We took down RZ in Tactics, and sailed through tipt trials time and again with Enchanter pets. And yes I'm sure your pet plus your DPS would be more than mine. But no way in hell will you out DPS me without that pet with us being equal level and somewhat similar gear.

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.

I don't think you even reading my posts. Anyway, glad you are enjoying your time on P1999!

Houdiny · #23 08-09-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've just proven that wizards are terrible DPS. You need the stars to align in order for you to even claim that your DPS would be insane, when a rogue or monk or necro or mage or ench can sustain great, xp-group DPS with ease.

And also, your sustained DPS would still not even APPROACH being "insane" even if you never missed med ticks, had 2 necros twitching you nonstop, had c2, and had a bard twisting mana songs nonstop. You'd be looking at maybe 50-60 sustained DPS. And looking at that number in a vaccuum, that is great sustained DPS. But it isn't insane, and it required 3 players dedicated to boosting you plus buffs plus an unrealistically godly tank for you to achieve it.

Obviously you misunderstood my entire point. For an Enchanter to have a charmed pet and a Shaman in the group to buff him to maximize his DPS is also having his stars aligned. That's my point. Under certain circumstances anyone can be great DPS. If you want to throw any and every damage shield on a Ranger and give him every best buff in the game then he might have some good DPS too.

Houdiny · #24 08-09-2012, 04:54 PM

Funny thing is you would think I am the one putting down another classes DPS by the way I am having to defend myself here. I got no quams with any other class, I think all classes when played right bring something good and unique and beneficial to a raid or a group

You guys think Wizards are terrible DPS. That's fine. No sweat off my sack. It's like I said, the people who want me in groups realize I am good dps.

Tecmos Deception · #25 08-09-2012, 05:38 PM

If wizards are good DPS, then explain how it is true. Because I just pointed out that even if you have 3 people doing nothing but boosting a 60 wizard's DPS, that wizard still doesn't perform as well as a rogue or monk or mage is going to in the same group (but without the necro's pumping).

Tecmos Deception · #26 08-09-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously you misunderstood my entire point. For an Enchanter to have a charmed pet and a Shaman in the group to buff him to maximize his DPS is also having his stars aligned. That's my point. Under certain circumstances anyone can be great DPS. If you want to throw any and every damage shield on a Ranger and give him every best buff in the game then he might have some good DPS too.

An enchanter using charm and a shaman using haste? Those things are not "the stars aligning."

A rogue or a monk with sham buffs? That is not "the stars aligning."

Two necros and a bard dedicated to do nothing but feed mana to a wizard IS "the stars aligning."

And yet, the enchanter, the monk, and the rogue will all still be doing more damage over time than the wizard, despite it taking a small miracle for the wizard to manage to do as much damage as he is.

THAT is why wizards are generally the worst option for an xp group. They have poor sustained DPS to begin with and it take more effort than it is worth to bring their sustained DPS to remotely competitive levels.

I'm not saying wizards are a terrible class, I'm just saying that you're a terrible player for thinking that your DPS, as a wizard, is good when it comes to an xp group setting.

Splorf22 · #27 08-09-2012, 11:09 PM

Why are we having this argument over an easily measurable quantity? Houdiny, how about you turn /log on, download Gamparse, and post the results of one of your XP sessions. Then we will see who is right and who is wrong.

runlvlzero · #28 09-24-2012, 12:46 AM

meh this thread boils down to arguments over sustained vs burst dps, most groups play the game like its wow and never med closer to FM then OOM nowadays so u will see poor dps in these groups.

A smart wizard knows when to attempt sustained dps and when to wait for burst DPS. Its really not a wizards issue if the group cant grasp this concept in a place like "CT" which is perpetually empty on both servers. (mostly because people are afraid of it and its "too hard" and not worth the risk blahblhah)

Ladytron · #29 09-30-2012, 12:25 PM

A good wizard can tell things like this and knows what is best for which circumstance.

/thread

Acillatem · #30 09-30-2012, 10:14 PM

The reason you take a WIZ in a group is because they can fill other roles AND DPS. Stuns help the CLR preserve mana which reduces the amount of downtime. You can use your flux staff to tag adds and help crowd control (and with Rune have little fear of loss of life in the process). On 2 mob pulls you can root the add close and Rain when the first mob is almost dead thus maximizing the Rain spell to doing wave x4. On bad pulls you can Sunstrike, but usually the best bet is stun/draught. Evac, snare, outstanding burst DPS, low to mid sustained DPS.

The argument of "needing C2" etc is redundant in my eyes becuz "groups" are dependent on one another for various reasons. MNK/ROG wouldn't be doing shit without a tank to maintain aggro and a CLR to heal. It's a process where everyone is dependent upon one another.

Adding a WIZ to a group isn't about adding pure DPS, it's about adding OPTIONS to the group. Options that INCLUDE DPS, but aren't LIMITED to DPS.

How do you calculate DPS for a WIZ who chain stuns a mob? Does the damage we PREVENT (and mana we preserve for healers) calculate into that?

Anyone who looks at a WIZ solely for their DPS value is just about as ignorant as a WIZ who solely casts Draught of Ice repeatedly and does nothing else.