Game Mechanics: Faction hits and sorting.

[maximum]

Originally Posted by maximum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bi-yearly bump.

[Varren]

Sure would be handy to know native faction for monsters I kill!

[Rygar]

Are you certain the faction hits are just sorted by absolute value? There appear to be exceptions to this in Daldaen's thread:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...hlight=faction

While most everything seem to follow the absolute value rule, here are some exceptions:

[Sat Aug 08 12:59:05 2015] You have slain Councilor Juliah Lockheart! - All Councilors share the same hit value
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:05 2015] Your faction standing with Coldain has been adjusted by -30.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:05 2015] Your faction standing with Dain Frostreaver IV has been adjusted by -7.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:05 2015] Your faction standing with Kromzek has been adjusted by 3.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:05 2015] Your faction standing with Kromrif has been adjusted by 15.

[Sat Aug 08 12:59:28 2015] You have slain an Icewell Sentinel!
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:28 2015] Your faction standing with Coldain has been adjusted by -20.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:28 2015] Your faction standing with Dain Frostreaver IV has been adjusted by -5.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:28 2015] Your faction standing with Kromzek has been adjusted by 2.
[Sat Aug 08 12:59:28 2015] Your faction standing with Kromrif has been adjusted by 10.

Should note that earlier posts in his log seem to list the NPC's primary faction last, but these seem to list primary faction first.

I didn't see the Counciller hit on ZAM, but the Icewell Sentinel values are confirmed accurate and there is another post in the comments confirming the same order as Daldaen.

If I had to guess (purely guess without any research), my thought would be they would not want to give indicators back in the day to how large the faction hits were. I would think they would be sorted by the primary key in the database (like how items have Item IDs, perhaps factions have faction IDs).

I noticed that on Kunark dragons where the primary faction is listed, but then LeagueofAntonican Bards and MayongMistmoore are listed above VenrilSathir. Those values happen to be sorted in the correct value order, but I wonder if there are other cases where 'new content' hits are always listed before 'old content' hits. Are there also cases where Kromzek are always listed before Kromrif on secondary faction hits (assuming Kromzek was created first in the database, Kromrif after).

I'll look into this further later.

[maximum]

If a fix is implemented for absolute values, we're most of the way to Classic. My OP screenshots from Live (pre-2003) all show absolute value.

Later on, you can open a new bug post to address Dragons and special cases. Perhaps all of Velious is a special case.

[Rygar]

I only noticed a handful of screenshots that you posted, were there more elsewhere? I don't think that is a relevant sample size to base the fix off of.

I'll continue to look into this, but there are just too many cases of values not being in the 'absolute value' order.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6472
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6092
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5866
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8539
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5398
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=28381
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6681
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=32799
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5384
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5390

These prove the 'sub-sort alphabetically if a tie occurs' is not correct either:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5385
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=5383


I am doubtful on Velious being a special case, but I will try and confirm that later by looking through Kunark / Classic content. Granted I'll be using the 'live values' shown on ZAM as a guide, but if any exceptions to the rules are verified by classic screenshots, that should show that absolute value sorting is not reliable.

I'm feeling a bit more confident in sorting by 'Faction ID', but I wasn't verifying that above with each link.

Part of me wonders if there was more beyond listing 'primary faction first', they certainly seem to list factions they are allied with 2nd most often (such as Coldain being primary, then Dain showing 2nd hit. Same if Kromrif is primary, Kromzek would often be next). Maybe it lists all factions the mobs will assist then other factions? Not sure if mobs assisting multiple factions is classic or not.

Will continue to look into this, I welcome any feedback or noted exceptions that break any proposed theory.

[Rygar]

Found some old world hits that come in funky ways...

Investigator Badge has some funky hits in no discernible sort order:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...tml?quest=1271

[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] an investigator says 'You have done our city a great service and helped to bring several criminals to justice this day! Wear this Investigator's Badge with pride! Speak again with Vegalys Keldrane, he may have information about [advancing further] in rank.'
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by 5.
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by 5.
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] Your faction standing with Ring of Scale has been adjusted by -2.
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] Your faction standing with Kane Bayle has been adjusted by -5.
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:12 2015] Your faction standing with Merchants of Qeynos has been adjusted by 5.
[Tue Nov 10 09:32:13 2015] You gain party experience!!

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...tml?quest=1279

[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Velarte Selire says, 'You did it! You have proven you have the intelligence required and you may wear this Researcher's Badge with pride! Thank you for returning the jars.'
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Your faction standing with Priests of Life has been adjusted by 5.
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Your faction standing with Knights of Thunder has been adjusted by 1.
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by 2.
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Your faction standing with Bloodsabers has been adjusted by -1.
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by 1.
[Fri Dec 29 13:35:44 2017] You gain experience (with a bonus)!

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/q...tml?quest=1288

[Fri Dec 29 14:00:48 2017] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by 5.
[Fri Dec 29 14:00:48 2017] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by 5.
[Fri Dec 29 14:00:48 2017] Your faction standing with Ring of Scale has been adjusted by -2.
[Fri Dec 29 14:00:48 2017] Your faction standing with Kane Bayle has been adjusted by -5.
[Fri Dec 29 14:00:48 2017] Your faction standing with Merchants of Qeynos has been adjusted by 5.

Rabid Grizzlies quest as well:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=557

[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] Your faction standing with Priests of Life has been adjusted by 20.
[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] Your faction standing with Knights of Thunder has been adjusted by 6.
[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by 10.
[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] Your faction standing with Bloodsabers has been adjusted by -5.
[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by 3.
[Wed Feb 25 20:19:46 2015] You gain experience!!

Soulfire quest is all over as well:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=362

Wed Oct 05 13:14:37 2016] Your faction standing with Mayong Mistmoore has been adjusted by -300.
[Wed Oct 05 13:14:37 2016] Your faction standing with King Tearis Thex has been adjusted by 75.
[Wed Oct 05 13:14:37 2016] Your faction standing with Agents of Mistmoore has been adjusted by -300.
[Wed Oct 05 13:14:37 2016] Your faction standing with League of Antonican Bards has been adjusted by 75.
[Wed Oct 05 13:14:37 2016] Your faction standing with Ring of Scale has been adjusted by 15.

Give sealed note to Brother Hayle
[Fri Apr 01 10:56:29 2016] Your faction standing with Priests of Life has been adjusted by 10.
[Fri Apr 01 10:56:29 2016] Your faction standing with Knights of Thunder has been adjusted by 3.
[Fri Apr 01 10:56:29 2016] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by 5.
[Fri Apr 01 10:56:29 2016] Your faction standing with Bloodsabers has been adjusted by -2.
[Fri Apr 01 10:56:29 2016] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by 1.

Give Testimony of Truth to Valeron Dushire
[Fri Apr 01 19:03:32 2016] Your faction standing with Knights of Truth has been adjusted by 100.
[Fri Apr 01 19:03:32 2016] Your faction standing with Dismal Rage has been adjusted by -15.
[Fri Apr 01 19:03:32 2016] Your faction standing with The Freeport Militia has been adjusted by -15.
[Fri Apr 01 19:03:32 2016] Your faction standing with Priests of Marr has been adjusted by 20.
[Fri Apr 01 19:03:32 2016] Your faction standing with Steel Warriors has been adjusted by 10.

Some random kills from old world, in case quests were different:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2983

[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by -150.
[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by -22.
[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Your faction standing with Corrupt Qeynos Guards has been adjusted by 22.
[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Your faction standing with Circle Of Unseen Hands has been adjusted by 37.
[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Your faction standing with Merchants of Qeynos has been adjusted by -15.
[Sat Mar 07 15:03:11 2015] Guard Philbin's corpse says 'My comrades will avenge my death.'

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2757

[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Halleb hit Guard Wenbie for 89 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Your faction standing with Guards of Qeynos has been adjusted by -60.
[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Your faction standing with Antonius Bayle has been adjusted by -9.
[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Your faction standing with Corrupt Qeynos Guards has been adjusted by 9.
[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Your faction standing with Circle Of Unseen Hands has been adjusted by 15.
[Sun May 15 09:55:55 2016] Your faction standing with Merchants of Qeynos has been adjusted by -6.

This one is Mooto, interesting that no Bixie faction given, didn't Aalderon famously farm this guy for months to become max ally with Bixies? should that be possible?
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=2107

[Sun Mar 12 13:52:18 2017] Your faction standing with Clan Runnyeye has been adjusted by -50.
[Sun Mar 12 13:52:18 2017] Your faction standing with Storm Reapers has been adjusted by 2.
[Sun Mar 12 13:52:18 2017] Your faction standing with Guardians of the Vale has been adjusted by 5.
[Sun Mar 12 13:52:18 2017] Your faction standing with Storm Guard has been adjusted by 2.
[Sun Mar 12 13:52:18 2017] Your faction standing with King Xorbb has been adjusted by 5.

Don't get me wrong, there are indeed cases where sorting by faction size are happening, but it is by no means universal, so I'm just posting things that show otherwise. So I don't think the absolute value sort order should be implemented, it would only serve to give hints about faction values.

I'll try and map out the order everything appears and see if there is any kind of connection. Will probably take a long time.