are wizards gimped?

[Elleve]

This thread made me happy I made a wizzie. I used to play ranger and monk so im actually pleased with the laid back role when grouping for a change [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Omnimorph]

Wizards do get better with age [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] there is no doubt about that. Sunstrike in kunark is a beast.

Wizards are very useful, but yes, they are totally mana dependent as they don't have a pet etc. But then the same could be said about druids or clerics. Pet classes were always the most preferred in classic, but that's why the later expansions started helping out the other classes.

Shammys got torpor in velious, wizzies get ridiculously awesome nukes in kunark (PB AE's for AE groups are awesome). So, yeah. A wizard is still good in classic, and they'll get better [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[odizzido]

Wizards overall are one of the weaker classes. Instead of making a long post I will just put some points down

The bad
1)Lowest sustained DPS of the DPS classes under most conditions


The good
1)Root for CC.
2)High burst damage(a good wiz will save a decent amount of mana to burn down targets quickly during harder battles)
3)DD with spell interrupt built in for fighting casters. Spells like force shock, thunder strike, force strike. Plus the clash line.
4)Ports.


Of course when looking at a mage, the bad is gone and they can do points 2 and 3 fairly well.




Anyways wizards are pretty weak in classic, but played well they can be at least okay. Especially if you are in a place where you are fighting many casters.

[fastboy21]

the wizard v. mage balance is a tricky one...

(forgetting ports) the mage definitely has a bit of an edge in classic. wizard dps can out match them, but only in short bursts.

in kunark, wizards get more of a niche because burst dps has a real place on raids...AND wizards get the lure line of spells which make them significantly better then other dps casters on many encounters.

by velious, the mage is basically a mod rod and coh bitch. the wizard gets dragonbane and giantbane, again making them much more useful than other dps castes on many encounters.

the mage and druid is an easy starting class in classic, but wiz gets its chance to outshine them.

[Bumamgar]

In true classic (pre-2002) raiding, Necros were very gimped due to DoT stacking issues (ie: they didn't stack with other necros). This meant that having more than one Necro along on a raid was a waste, unless you could put them to other uses (ie: mana battery).

Prior to the patch on Sept 2nd, 2002, (right before PoP), The same DoT cast on a target by multiple players would not stack. I'm not sure how it is setup here on p99, but this, coupled with pet agro issues pre-'pet hold', caused a lot of raid leaders to favor Wizards vs. Mages and Necros. Since there aren't any stacking issues with straight up nukes, and they don't depend on pets for DPS, Wizards were considered the best form of caster DPS for raiding prior to this patch. A token Necro and Mage brought along for utility was often it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Skope]

I've tried the DoT stacking, and it actually works here, with the exception of the snare-line, though not sure about asystole :P I do know that both fire, disease and poison do stack

[Bumamgar]

Yeah, even after the DoT-stacking patch of 2002, various dot/debuff combo spells still didn't stack, only pure DoTs. For example, Dooming Darkness wouldn't stack if cast by multiple players, since it has a snare component. But Ignite Blood would stack (after the patch), since it's just a straight DoT with no debuff.

I suspect Asystole does not stack, due to the STR/AC debuff, but I could be wrong.

[xorbier]

We've clearly established Rangers are the top dps! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You all have made some good points. I was just responding to the general "Wizards are gimped/suck" statements which were simply absurd.

Don't get me wrong i love mages and necros and enjoy having them in my groups. I just hate when people generalize and make false statements to build up their class.

It is true mages are OP in classic, but when I decided to create a wizard as one of my characters I was thinking more long term for the Kunark and Velious releases and the role i would play in raids. I personally find the role of a wizard more fun on raids and thus why i have one.

I'd love to see actual data that supports what some people are saying though about wizards having one of the lowest sustained/overall dps. I know in my groups i do at least 1/3 or more of the dmg per mob and I find it hard to believe.

"The bad
1)Lowest sustained DPS of the DPS classes under most conditions"

Data to support this!?!??!?!?!?!

[Gandite]

OP I'm a wizard so let me dispell some of this horseshit.

I have always consistently been able to out DPS a mage. This usually happens when I'm single or quad-kiting and some mage walks up looking for some mobs. I've never had a problem stealing my kill back from a mage.

The other thing about mages is they are great while you level, but once you get your mage to 50 you might as well go ahead and roll a class that is useful for something other than leveling to 50. A mage is great at leveling himself and farming crap to give to the character you actually want to play.

The life of a wizard is pretty rough. I've died countless times doing silly stuff. I've also died countless times helping people, soloing, grouping etc etc. Soloing as a wizard is not impossible however it does carry a lot of risks. Quadkiting is also very possible but quite difficult even with jboots and a levitation cloak. I don't have my temp flux staff so it could be easier, but I know it won't be by much.

Should you roll a wizard? Probably not.

[Weekapaug]

I played a wiz in the original classic era and, it was pretty tough going, but like anything in EQ one man's hell is another's fun. I had a great time with the class and, even though conventional wisdom was that mages way out DPSed us, I never had problems with groups anymore than anyone else did at the time.

Ironicly, the thing that put me off of the class and caused a reroll around the time Kunark came out and I was closing in on 50 was the fact that I pretty much had him maxxed out INT and as much +mana as I could get with readily accessible gear (200 was the stat cap then...here?) and anything better I either couldnt afford to buy and certainly never could win a roll for. I succumbed to "grass is always greener-ism" because of bad luck, basicly...the whole time I never could win rolls or afford the few upgrades I could get, my melee friends were having the time of their lives upgrading every slot every other week, it seemed. This got old after months and months....I think the best item I ever won a roll for on that toon was a Sup Pack in Guk and 3 people in the group already had one....On a toon that had 90 days /played on his first birthday. So while I had fun playing him, EQ is a gear-centered game and never getting any useful gear really knocks the fun off fast...

So I twinked and rolled up a SK who remained my main until luclin. I said "Ironicly" above, because, while I loved my SK also, I got him levelled up just in time for the dark days of hybrids during Kunark, when it became known that we brought a 40% exp pentalty to the group. Plus the perception at the time was that warriors were better group tanks than knights anyway, so why would any sane group bother with them when exp was at a crawl as it was? Meanwhile, wizzes were really coming into their own during that era, and even getting OP abilities nerfed, if I recall correctly.

I get into all of that, in case any of it sounds familiar....If you aren't enjoying your wiz, really have a look at why. Is it really the class, or just where it fits into the game at this particular time? Or some other reason like my bad luck that just exaserbates the fact that classic era isn't really the golden age of wizzes in this game, but little more than that? Regardless, I would examine it from a personal gameplay standpoint rather than comparisons to other classes. Other classes are always going to do things better and other players of the same class may also...What's important is how much fun you are having with it.