Girdle of Living Thorns or Belt of Dwarf Slaying?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are taking hits the girdle is objectively better. Yaulp4 and it doesn’t stack.
If not, AoB is better than Thorncoat.

Ideally both but if you have to pick, get the Girdle and a turtle belt for like 50k on blue.

I am not so sure about that, at least on a Paladin who is actively Yaulping. Since Spikecoat and Yaulp4 don't stack, this produces an interesting wrinkle.

Mobs swing every 2 seconds, unless they are hasted or slowed. This means 4 damage shield will do 2 DPS (4 damage / 2 seconds) if the mob hits every time. Obviously that doesn't happen unless you are spamming sit. At a 70% hit rate, you'd get like 1.4 DPS with Spikecoat. This assumes the mob isn't slowed, casting spells, running, etc.

AoB + Yaulp4 gives you +26 ATK. Let's assume the Paladin is already max STR, so the STR isn't helping DPS. According to my DPS calculator, a 60 Paladin with Great Spear of Dawn (53/46 2h weapon), 61% Haste (41% worn + 20% from eyepatch), and 255 STR would gain roughly 1.4 DPS as well from +26 ATK.

Yaulp4 gives 15 AC compared to Spikecoats 25 AC. But remember than AoB gives HP regen, so you are still getting a defensive bonus in exchange for -10 AC.

They are both pretty comparable in most scenarios. AoB will have the advantage if you are slowing mobs or fighting casters. If you are fighting a raid mob that flurries, then spikecoat will have the advantage. But that does assume you have a buff slot for spikecoat for that raid encounter.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not so sure about that, at least on a Paladin who is actively Yaulping. Since Spikecoat and Yaulp4 don't stack, this produces an interesting wrinkle.

Mobs swing every 2 seconds, unless they are hasted or slowed. This means 4 damage shield will do 2 DPS (4 damage / 2 seconds) if the mob hits every time. Obviously that doesn't happen unless you are spamming sit. At a 70% hit rate, you'd get like 1.4 DPS with Spikecoat. This assumes the mob isn't slowed, casting spells, running, etc.

AoB + Yaulp4 gives you +26 ATK. Let's assume the Paladin is already max STR, so the STR isn't helping DPS. According to my DPS calculator, a 60 Paladin with Great Spear of Dawn (53/46 2h weapon), 61% Haste (41% worn + 20% from eyepatch), and 255 STR would gain roughly 1.4 DPS as well from +26 ATK.

Yaulp4 gives 15 AC compared to Spikecoats 25 AC. But remember than AoB gives HP regen, so you are still getting a defensive bonus in exchange for -10 AC.

They are both pretty comparable in most scenarios. AoB will have the advantage if you are slowing mobs or fighting casters. If you are fighting a raid mob that flurries, then spikecoat will have the advantage. But that does assume you have a buff slot for spikecoat for that raid encounter.

Yaulp4’ing is more dps (it’s about 40 displayed attack; doesn’t stack with SoN or Shissar). It it’s also more APM. Skipping it for Spikecoat lets you devote that action to self-casting the HoT, more aggro spells, or focusing on other stuff like clickies and positioning. The girdle is also a long duration junk buff that stacks with most everything like the Coldain ring. The worst part is the lack of mana which for a pally or SK is something to think about.

Maybe I was rounding up with “objectively better”. If I’m tanking for 20-40+ people one of the first things I give up is Yaulping, as good as the spell is for normal use. My slider is all the way cranked to being a good aggro tank, Soulfire clicking, or swapping to a more beneficial class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I was rounding up with “objectively better”. If I’m tanking for 20-40+ people one of the first things I give up is Yaulping, as good as the spell is for normal use. My slider is all the way cranked to being a good aggro tank, Soulfire clicking, or swapping to a more beneficial class.

I agree that yaulping isn't really worth much while raiding. I was focusing more on solo/group content where you are more likely to care about 2 DPS.

In raiding neither yaulp or spikecoat will matter much, unless you are trying to max damage shield for a specific target like AoW. Raid targets usually aren't in dire need of 2 DPS from the tank. You also generally have less buff slots available in raids, so you may not have room for spikecoat or yaulp anyway.

[Naethyn]

Unresistable damage is special.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unresistable damage is special.

Both white damage and damage shield can be "resisted" via a miss. In the case of white damage, it is your miss. In the case of damage shield, it is the mob's miss.

Damage shields are more consistent than white damage, as their damage value never changes. High level raid mobs will also probably have a higher hit chance than the player, and they can do things like flurry. This means more hits on the damage shield.

Damage shields are also subject to becoming less effective in certain scenarios, however, such as the mob being slowed or the mob casting a spell. If you use Willsapper and slow the mob by 35%, the DPS from spikecoat goes down to 0.9 DPS. If you have a Shaman in your group it'll go down to like 0.4 DPS. In that case the ~1.4 DPS from the +26 ATK via Yaulp4 + AoB is going to be better.

[Naethyn]

Max ds on aow is worth 3 rogues.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Max ds on aow is worth 3 rogues.

This thread is about Paladins or Shadowknights getting Girdle. Unless the meta has changed recently, only Warriors are tanking AoW. Also Spikecoat is 4 damage, not the maximum possible damage shield damage value.

[Naethyn]

We’re tanking vulak with clerics we aren’t far off from a knight aow. Warriors are dps now.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We’re tanking vulak with clerics we aren’t far off from a knight aow. Warriors are dps now.

I personally wouldn't suggest that a Knight should get a Girdle just for the hypothetical scenario that Knights may tank AoW at some point in the future. Right now AoW tanking is still done by Warriors.

I assume a Knight tanking AoW would need to have even better gear than what is required for a Warrior to offset the lack of Warrior disciplines. So you would need to be a BiS or near BiS Knight, which is going to take a while.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally wouldn't suggest that a Knight should get a Girdle just for the hypothetical scenario that Knights may tank AoW at some point in the future. Right now AoW tanking is still done by Warriors.

I assume a Knight tanking AoW would need to have even better gear than what is required for a Warrior to offset the lack of Warrior disciplines. So you would need to be a BiS or near BiS Knight, which is going to take a while.

Didn't Captain bevellos steal aow from warriors? He is a paladin too /nod