Best SK Race for Questing

[Snaggles]

I know the difference between an AD and AP…

Sure, a turnkey Greenmist is like 15k. SK epic is like 180k or so if you aren’t in a raiding guild.

A lot of velious quests are fun and not racist against anyone. The gear is actually good. Hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know the difference between an AD and AP…

Sure, a turnkey Greenmist is like 15k. SK epic is like 180k or so if you aren’t in a raiding guild.

Argent Protector + Blood Ember Gloves is like 3K total on Blue if we are going off cost, and that combo will be better than Greenmist.

[Danth]

The main thing I wonder about with Greenmist is how much the extra ripostes generated by the fast speed are going to hurt. I expect taking extra 300's or 400's may in practice counteract much of its self healing, though its 25 AC plus shield AC plus iksar racial AC bonus will also counter-counteract some of that. I don't have an answer, yet! I've never been been able to trial myself against a similarly-equipped iksar shadowknight due to the latter's rarity.

Damage-wise, Greenmist will always outperform its ratio due to its special effect and it gives good account of itself for something that can be held in one hand. It should out-perform Shard of Night and against high AC targets I suspect it will also out perform Darkmetal Falchion or Massive Dragonclaw Shard.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main thing I wonder about with Greenmist is how much the extra ripostes generated by the fast speed are going to hurt. I expect taking extra 300's or 400's may in practice counteract much of its self healing, though its 25 AC plus shield AC plus iksar racial AC bonus will also counter-counteract some of that. I don't have an answer, yet! I've never been been able to trial myself against a similarly-equipped iksar shadowknight due to the latter's rarity.

Damage-wise, Greenmist will always outperform its ratio due to its special effect and it gives good account of itself for something that can be held in one hand. It should out-perform Shard of Night and against high AC targets I suspect it will also out perform Darkmetal Falchion or Massive Dragonclaw Shard.

Danth

It is true that the proc adds a bit of DPS, but the DPS difference will depend on how often you proc it. The other bad thing about Greenmist is the proc is 30 HP per tick over 8 ticks, vs. Epic which is 50 HP per tick over 5 ticks. This means proc overlap is a bigger problem. If you proc Greenmist twice in a minute, you are only gaining 300 HP and doing 300 damage over that minute, instead of the full 480 HP. This is assuming you proc it at 30 second intervals (255 DEX).

[Danth]

Other way 'round in practice because P99's so streaky. You aren't getting those procs in nice 30 second intervals. I've been using Innoruuk's Curse for what, 6 years or so? Either of them will quite often "waste" procs when they fire off back-to-back. Even with maximum DEX the epic effect falls off fairly often. Greenmist would stay on far more consistently--consistently enough that once it fires you can just about plan on it getting that 300/min. With IC I expect my proc uptime is more like 75 per cent or so, maybe a little more, maybe not, but either way they're a lot closer than you might expect at a glance.

I do not know that they're close enough for Greenmist and it's associated higher AC to overcome the difference plus Greenmist's higher incoming riposte rate. That's something I'd like to have trial'd sometime, but I've never had the chance. I know Greenmist is nice, but I don't really know *how* nice it is. I also believe Greenmist's effect lacks a resist modifier, which would harm it in areas with very resistant opponents, like the named in Velketor's castle. Again, I've not had opportunity to witness the true impact of this in practice.

Danth

[Snaggles]

Ripostes almost dont matter at all, even tanking like HoT at 60. Let alone blue con xp stuff.

I wouldnt say the GM is better than the epic (not even close). Better proc, way better dps with the last iteration of the damage bonus. But as a pleb tanking weapon that goes well with a flurry or Sevelak shield the GM is solid. 25 MR again is really nice. Even if it doesnt land the proc does aggro, again...great.

It's a brilliantly fun quest. I just wish I didnt dislike iksars and especially their 2h swing animation. If I had a RL buddy who wanted to start the same race and do a bunch of the town quests id go Iksar all the way, probably do all the armor quests too. Plus grinding in HK wouldnt be so friggin annoying since you actually fit in the hallways.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ripostes almost dont matter at all, even tanking like HoT at 60. Let alone blue con xp stuff.

I wouldnt say the GM is better than the epic (not even close). Better proc, way better dps with the last iteration of the damage bonus. But as a pleb tanking weapon that goes well with a flurry or Sevelak shield the GM is solid. 25 MR again is really nice. Even if it doesnt land the proc does aggro, again...great.

It's a brilliantly fun quest. I just wish I didnt dislike iksars and especially their 2h swing animation. If I had a RL buddy who wanted to start the same race and do a bunch of the town quests id go Iksar all the way, probably do all the armor quests too. Plus grinding in HK wouldnt be so friggin annoying since you actually fit in the hallways.

Oh yeah, I am sure the quest is fun. I have considered making an Iksar SK and doing something similar to what OP wants to do (rely on drops/quests). I just don't have the time, and I think I would miss Blood Ember items too much. I honestly wish Greenmist was better, because then it would offset the lack of Blood Ember more.

I think what Danth was talking about in terms of Riposte is how much extra damage you take vs. what you heal. Greenmist is basically giving you 300 HP/Minute assuming you proc twice per minute. But if you are fighting a mob that does 140 damage per hit, you may end up taking at least 280 damage in that minute by triggering two more ripostes. So Danth wants to know if using a 1H sword like Greenmist would end up causing enough Ripostes to cancel out the healing. I don't think he was suggesting you need to heavily worry about Ripostes in general. If that is the case, then technically you aren't getting any healing with Greenmist when compared to using a 2h weapon like Argent Protector. At that point you are just getting 300 damage per minute via the procs.

However, when soloing you will typically be fear kiting anyway. This means you aren't going to be riposted much, but you also are not going to need the Greenmist's healing as much. Fear kiting is the reason why Blood Ember typically out-performs the Greenmist DoT. Saving a bunch of mana on Snare and/or Fear means you can spend more time fear kiting, and less time meditating. Mana is the bottleneck when fear kiting typically, not HP, because fear kiting heavily reduces how much damage you take.

[Danth]

You're right, Shamwowi, in how I am thinking of Riposte. Except I'm thinking more in terms of 300/400 hitters you'll face in higehr-end duo/trio areas. One extra riposte here and there from something like that would potentially cancel out most of Greenmist's healing.

There's something to factor in for AC as well. A typical lower- or mid-range player won't have access to Temple Veeshan drops, so usually you see a Greenmist paired with an Atramentous Shield. 25 AC on the Greenmist plus 28 on the shield is 79 or 80 displayed AC in-game, plus another what, 40 or so from Iksar racial benefit? He'll have well over 100 more AC than a comparable Troll/Human/Etc who wields Innoruuk's Curse. That has to account for something and should counteract some of the extra riposte damage. Probably we'd have to try a couple of similar shadowknights side by side to see its true effectiveness. I don't know any Iksars. The ones I did have long since stopped logging in.

I'll say this, I like my IC just fine. I borrowed a Reaver once and the IC was more damage over time due to the proc being worth more than the 5 delay.

Danth

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh yeah, I am sure the quest is fun. I have considered making an Iksar SK and doing something similar to what OP wants to do (rely on drops/quests). I just don't have the time, and I think I would miss Blood Ember items too much. I honestly wish Greenmist was better, because then it would offset the lack of Blood Ember more.

I think what Danth was talking about in terms of Riposte is how much extra damage you take vs. what you heal. Greenmist is basically giving you 300 HP/Minute assuming you proc twice per minute. But if you are fighting a mob that does 140 damage per hit, you may end up taking at least 280 damage in that minute by triggering two more ripostes. So Danth wants to know if using a 1H sword like Greenmist would end up causing enough Ripostes to cancel out the healing. I don't think he was suggesting you need to heavily worry about Ripostes in general. If that is the case, then technically you aren't getting any healing with Greenmist when compared to using a 2h weapon like Argent Protector. At that point you are just getting 300 damage per minute via the procs.

However, when soloing you will typically be fear kiting anyway. This means you aren't going to be riposted much, but you also are not going to need the Greenmist's healing as much. Fear kiting is the reason why Blood Ember typically out-performs the Greenmist DoT. Saving a bunch of mana on Snare and/or Fear means you can spend more time fear kiting, and less time meditating. Mana is the bottleneck when fear kiting typically, not HP, because fear kiting heavily reduces how much damage you take.

I've done 4 different SK builds(someday I might finish off with DE & Erudite).

The Greenmist was a somewhat enjoyable quest if you're into that, but I ended up quitting due to Iksar animations. Both the bash spin animation & the 2hs(even after the user fix) are still bad. Iksars only good animations IMO are the 2hb & 2h pierce.

I would agree at how useful the Blood Ember clickies are, which paired with epic are even better. The blood ember clickies are really incredible that I would not recommend anyone going iksar, the gloves/pants are free splits all day long. The boots are a good tool to use in conjunction with undead fears to balance mana. My troll SK would usually cycle in epic usually when the mob fleed and I would back the pet off as well. I had around 170 dex so I had pretty good rng with procs. Between blood ember, crown of narandi, fungi, and epic, I could go for a long time without running oom. The epic procs allow you to do some tanking as well to save mana. To just fear kite 24/7 is silly, it is really a balancing act of managing hp/mana. SKs can out xp any other melee if you know where to go. It's an amazing class that unfortunately aren't utilized much in raids but that shouldn't stop anyone from playing one.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've done 4 different SK builds(someday I might finish off with DE & Erudite).

The Greenmist was a somewhat enjoyable quest if you're into that, but I ended up quitting due to Iksar animations. Both the bash spin animation & the 2hs(even after the user fix) are still bad. Iksars only good animations IMO are the 2hb & 2h pierce.

I would agree at how useful the Blood Ember clickies are, which paired with epic are even better. The blood ember clickies are really incredible that I would not recommend anyone going iksar, the gloves/pants are free splits all day long. The boots are a good tool to use in conjunction with undead fears to balance mana. My troll SK would usually cycle in epic usually when the mob fleed and I would back the pet off as well. I had around 170 dex so I had pretty good rng with procs. Between blood ember, crown of narandi, fungi, and epic, I could go for a long time without running oom. The epic procs allow you to do some tanking as well to save mana. To just fear kite 24/7 is silly, it is really a balancing act of managing hp/mana. SKs can out xp any other melee if you know where to go. It's an amazing class that unfortunately aren't utilized much in raids but that shouldn't stop anyone from playing one.

Agreed!