Crucify PvP Server

[EatitNerd]

Originally Posted by Rust1d? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do not see why a Crucify server could not co-exist with any other PvP. It is completely different and you do not have to poop sock your way for 100+ hours grinding the same shit over and over. Plus, you do not have to travel from zone to zone looking for pvp, it is always right in front of you

Population would be less than 10 a week after launch due to the reasons you mentioned.

[Knuckle]

I could get down for some crushbone only diablo style loot pvp server for that counterstrike feel, someone stand it up!

[Gustoo]

Yeah a fixed level fixed build per class pvp system would be fun with some kinda rewards.

Npcs you kill and clear for loot while fending off pvp enemies.

Fixed set of no drop gear and all your upgrade gear from NpCs is droppable lootable

[Gustoo]

Reset switch. People play to progress. Eq pvp with this rule set has little interest for anyone including pvp players when it terminates at velious a cockblock all/all zero weight +10 to all stats items end game. It’s over and we’re ready for next play through, preferably with a classic ruleset from the get go so people don’t quit in the hundreds

[Nibbles]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Nibbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

I love EQ PvP and I quit R99 because it devolved to the point that one guild dominated the server. I mean I was even there as a founding member and I quit like the next day because I knew the competition was over.

I'm working on a server concept that allows for team balancing. If too many no life aggressive nerds end up in one place at the same time they need to be dealt with before they kill the community. This is the only thing that will sustain a population.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love EQ PvP and I quit R99 because it devolved to the point that one guild dominated the server. I mean I was even there as a founding member and I quit like the next day because I knew the competition was over.

I'm working on a server concept that allows for team balancing. If too many no life aggressive nerds end up in one place at the same time they need to be dealt with before they kill the community. This is the only thing that will sustain a population.

People will aggregate, its almost impossible to dodge. What you can do is limit the harm this does to a minimum. For example, on red early on the biggest problem by far was that Nihilum could sit in fear forever, farm for gear that will make them even harder to drive out because no one wanted to eat xp death. What should have happened is guerilla outfits going in and making them work for it, sneaking in kills for a while after wipes, etc... Im quite sure this is the main reason why the server failed. To use your expression, it did not respect players' time. Off the top of my head the solutions dont come up (besides not doing something bad like xp loss in pvp) but im sure there are some and its important to collectively think about them imo and have a post where the pitfalls can be laid out and solutions proposed.

Also, if the server is a huge time investment like red, you develop trust issues with bad management. Why would i waste my time putting in time on a character on a 1X xp server where devs watch the pop go from 600 to 9 at nite without reacting when the fix is easy to implement and clear, nerf xp on a fragile pop server? They clearly dont give a shit about their players, that was a recurring thought in my head from classic to kunark. They give a shit about putting a server up, thanks for that, but it feels like it doesnt go beyond that. It almost feels like something Rogean did for his portfolio, something to show off in RL for whatever IT job hes jonesing for and nothing beyond that. Im sure i wasnt the only player who left during Kunark who juggled and weighted these questions in their heads before deciding to quit for good. Its quite a road to 60 and when you see devs pull moves like the xp nerf or leave the server to rot through their inaction that predictably will lead to a dead server when you do get to 60, i got better things to do with my time.

Its the same exact situation 10 years later, instead of just saying "well never do red 2.0, this is all there will be" as a lifebuoy for the existing population (as it will lead people on the fence to decide to play as there will never be anything else, helping the population grow a little) or "its still coming we just dont know when" so that 1.0 players can make an informed decision if they want to invest time or wait for a new server, people are left to rot. Its a 5 minute thing to do, a respect-your-players-time gesture toward the population thats still playing, but they are not going to do it. They still dont give a shit about their playerbase beyond heres a server, take it or leave it.

With a casual-friendly, boosted xp server, this lack of communication, apprehension of terrible decisions down the line is less of an issue. Like you said, if its fun people will play it. The ruleset either works for you or doesnt and its not a big deal if the plug is pulled on the server out of the blue, which is basically the only advantage i can think of from p99 vs less stable servers. If its not a big time investment, then if something happens you dont like with the ruleset, you can just quit.

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People will aggregate, its almost impossible to dodge. What you can do is limit the harm this does to a minimum. For example, on red early on the biggest problem by far was that Nihilum could sit in fear forever, farm for gear that will make them even harder to drive out because no one wanted to eat xp death. What should have happened is guerilla outfits going in and making them work for it, sneaking in kills for a while after wipes, etc... Im quite sure this is the main reason why the server failed. To use your expression, it did not respect players' time. Off the top of my head the solutions dont come up (besides not doing something bad like xp loss in pvp) but im sure there are some and its important to collectively think about them imo and have a post where the pitfalls can be laid out and solutions proposed.

Also, if the server is a huge time investment like red, you develop trust issues with bad management. Why would i waste my time putting in time on a character on a 1X xp server where devs watch the pop go from 600 to 9 at nite without reacting when the fix is easy to implement and clear, nerf xp on a fragile pop server? They clearly dont give a shit about their players, that was a recurring thought in my head from classic to kunark. They give a shit about putting a server up, thanks for that, but it feels like it doesnt go beyond that. It almost feels like something Rogean did for his portfolio, something to show off in RL for whatever IT job hes jonesing for and nothing beyond that. Im sure i wasnt the only player who left during Kunark who juggled and weighted these questions in their heads before deciding to quit for good. Its quite a road to 60 and when you see devs pull moves like the xp nerf or leave the server to rot through their inaction that predictably will lead to a dead server when you do get to 60, i got better things to do with my time.

Its the same exact situation 10 years later, instead of just saying "well never do red 2.0, this is all there will be" as a lifebuoy for the existing population (as it will lead people on the fence to decide to play as there will never be anything else, helping the population grow a little) or "its still coming we just dont know when" so that 1.0 players can make an informed decision if they want to invest time or wait for a new server, people are left to rot. Its a 5 minute thing to do, a respect-your-players-time gesture toward the population thats still playing, but they are not going to do it. They still dont give a shit about their playerbase beyond heres a server, take it or leave it.

With a casual-friendly, boosted xp server, this lack of communication, apprehension of terrible decisions down the line is less of an issue. Like you said, if its fun people will play it. The ruleset either works for you or doesnt and its not a big deal if the plug is pulled on the server out of the blue, which is basically the only advantage i can think of from p99 vs less stable servers. If its not a big time investment, then if something happens you dont like with the ruleset, you can just quit.

Any PvP server needs to have the experience boosted. Nobody wants to put 1,000+ hours into leveling a character on a pvp server

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Nibbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with a classic ruleset is that people realize they cannot compete with the ones who poopsock their way to 50 and just shit on everyone else. This is not 1999 anymore so the people who want the true classic experience are only a handful. People work, have families etc. Needs to have level locked progression to prevent poopsocking.

This is why Red was losing 50 people a week and eventually lost all of its players.

It doesnt matter, really. Locked progression would help but its not why 1.0 failed. It had 600 at launch and predictably lost most of his pop after about a year under the watch of devs/staff who thought nothing was amiss with players posting they were "griefing people off the server" with xp loss. It literally had single digit pop at nite at the peak of population bleed. They removed xp loss in pvp, part of the pop came back and it looked like the server might recuperate from its crippled state. Then 2 months later or something, Sirken comes in and either out of his own initiative or doing devs' bidding, finished the server off by nerfing PVE xp on a server with an already fragile pop.

Server never had a chance. They can blame it on the toxic pop all they want. Its them who gave griefers a sharp knife telling them to act responsibly with it like it wasnt predictable what outcome would come out of this.

Theres 2 things that matter with a server reboot: Getting an initial pop and no xp loss in pvp or some fucking ill-thought, wrote-it-on-a-napkin experimental ruleset that youre not babysitting to see if it works during the first weeks.

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesnt matter, really. Locked progression would help but its not why 1.0 failed. It had 600 at launch and predictably lost most of his pop after about a year under the watch of devs/staff who thought nothing was amiss with players posting they were "griefing people off the server" with xp loss. It literally had single digit pop at nite at the peak of population bleed. They removed xp loss in pvp, part of the pop came back and it looked like the server might recuperate from its crippled state. Then 2 months later or something, Sirken comes in and either out of his own initiative or doing devs' bidding, finished the server off by nerfing PVE xp on a server with an already fragile pop.

Server never had a chance. They can blame it on the toxic pop all they want. Its them who gave griefers a sharp knife telling them to act responsibly with it like it wasnt predictable what outcome would come out of this.

Theres 2 things that matter with a server reboot: Getting an initial pop and no xp loss in pvp or some fucking ill-thought, wrote-it-on-a-napkin experimental ruleset that youre not babysitting to see if it works during the first weeks.

Well it was the same with Dentists on K&B etc. They used all sorts of hacks, paid their way to have shit coded for them specifically and people just left because there was no way to compete.