Is Seal Team going to wake the sleeper? - Page 3

DeathsSilkyMist · #1 09-22-2021, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, pretty sure that it's still a dick move.

I don't think so. I don't believe it is realistic to expect the other guilds to abide by the "Do not wake Sleeper" rule. Everybody wants a shot at Sleeper, it is one of the coolest events in EQ. Without Dev intervention, waking Sleeper is not a guild specific endeavor. If Seal Team doesn't do it, someone else will.

Just being realistic. Blue would still have Warder loot if the P99 community could resist the temptation to wake Sleeper.

loramin · #2 09-22-2021, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think so. I don't believe it is realistic to expect the other guilds to abide by the "Do not wake Sleeper" rule. Everybody wants a shot at Sleeper, it is one of the coolest events in EQ. Without Dev intervention, waking Sleeper is not a guild specific endeavor. If Seal Team doesn't do it, someone else will.

Just being realistic. Blue would still have Warder loot if the P99 community could resist the temptation to wake Sleeper.

"If I didn't murder the guy and take all his money, someone else would have" ... does not make for either a good legal or moral defense.

loramin · #3 09-22-2021, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is a huge false equivalency lol. Last time I checked, waking Sleeper isn't a crime, and the P99 UN isn't an actual Government with any real power.

This is a game, and waking Sleeper is an actual feature players can use. It isn't a bug or an exploit.

Also, murdering people and taking their money is basically the main mechanic of this game, so not even a great false equivalency.

No one ever said it was a crime. What I wrote was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that it's still a dick move.

And it still is ... regardless of your weak logic that it's ok to be a dick as long as some hypothetical future person will also be a dick. It was a dick move when Rampage did it, and it will be a dick move if and when any Green guild does it.

DeathsSilkyMist · #4 09-22-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one ever said it was a crime. What I wrote was:

And it still is ... regardless of your weak logic that it's ok to be a dick as long as some hypothetical future person will also be a dick. It was a dick move when Rampage did it, and it will be a dick move if and when any Green guild does it.

The only odd logic here is why using a feature literally put into the game by it's creators is a "dick move". It isn't a bug, it isn't an exploit, and the Dev's are not telling players to "Not wake Sleeper or else". If you don't like Everquest, play a different game.

Ooloo · #5 09-22-2021, 02:09 PM

I think a fair compromise would be that the warders continue dropping those items for X amount of time after the sleeper is woken. Then ST could still have the title of first and only guild to wake sleeper on green, but other guilds could then trickle in and compete for warders. And let's face it, ST will *still* probably win every warder, but at least there'd be a shred of a chance somebody else might get those items. As it is now, there's no reason for other guilds to even try.

branamil · #6 09-22-2021, 04:33 PM

Making the sleeper wake-able was a really dumb decision. Imagine giving players the ability to permanently delete 4 pieces of raid content on a time-locked server.

Ripqozko · #7 09-22-2021, 05:13 PM

Sorry you don't got warder loot, consider yellow.

loramin · #8 09-22-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, that is a pretty drastic misrepresentation of my argument, yet again[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] In P99, there are things you can do in the game mechanic-wise that are valid (such as kill stealing a mob). However, we have rules against it, because we recognize that as "being a dick".

The Dev's have not made any rules against killing the Sleeper, and the Sleeper is working as it was originally intended. Last time I checked, "Classic Everquest" is the subtitle of this very forum lol.

So in it's current state, unless the Dev's change their stance on it, waking the Sleeper is a normal game mechanic, no different than other raid targets. It is also working as intended, in it's classic state.

So now the goalposts have moved (yet again) to "as long as there's no rule against it, it can't be a dick move"?

I still disagree ... but I'm sure you'll just come up with yet another set of goalposts for what constitutes "dickishness".

DeathsSilkyMist · #9 09-22-2021, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So now the goalposts have moved (yet again) to "as long as there's no rule against it, it can't be a dick move"?

I still disagree ... but I'm sure you'll just come up with yet another set of goalposts for what constitutes "dickishness".

I never moved any goal posts. Please re-read my posts. You keep straw manning me with your own words. Distilling someone's argument down to an unreasonable and silly sentence is not a valid counter-argument[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's approach this from a different angle. Why do we have rules and the play nice policy? The reason is simple, we as a community have agreed that certain behaviors are bad, exploiting bugs, etc. That is what we constitute as "dickish behavior".

If it isn't in the rules or the play nice policy, your opinion on what is "dickish" is just that, your opinion. Now, we could certainly find new things that we consider "dickish behavior", and add it to the rules or the play nice policy. But that is a decision made by the Dev's who work hard on this project, and the community who plays it. It is not dictated by single individuals and their opinions.

As of writing this post, I see nothing in any documentation suggesting playing the game normally by waking the Sleeper is a bad thing. In "Classic Everquest" (which P99 is trying to emulate), Sleeper is awoken once, and that's it. If you honestly believe the entire P99 community can resist waking the Sleeper just because of your opinion, you are sorely mistaken. It is not a "dick move" to acknowledge reality, which can be backed up by the Sleeper being awoken on Blue.

loramin · #10 09-22-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's approach this from a different angle.

Sounds good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do we have rules and the play nice policy? The reason is simple, we as a community have agreed that certain behaviors are bad, exploiting bugs, etc. That is what we constitute as "dickish behavior".

Here's the thing: you keep claiming I am misrepresenting you, but I don't think I am ... I think we just disagree. Stop me if I'm wrong: you believe that if the game/PnP allows you to do something, it can't be dickish. Correct?

I disagree with that position, and if just get on the same page about the definition of "dickishness", maybe you'll see why:

Quote:

Originally Posted by https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dickishness

Dickishness: relating to, or being, in the state, quality, condition or degree of being a dick.

Dick in this sense is a "mean" or "contempable" person(s)

Simple question: can you follow the server rules, and still be "contempable" (sic) person?