They change drop rates on GGR? Wiki full of BS?

[Fleelord]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Moron 1: over 20 hours 100+ couriers, no ring
Moron 2: over 15 hours 60+ courtiers 1 ring.

I put in 48 hours at CoS/Idol camp in Droga. Didn't get the Idol until the final hour.

Got 3 CoS before getting the damn idol.

[unsunghero]

Thank goodness hard-casting invis still seems to work just fine. Cancel magic on the other hand, broke charms at first then just stopped working completely...was weird

[Shadeynight]

Alright guys, someone get out there and kill 10,000 couriers for the sake of this argument! You’ll probably even make some plat out of it!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank goodness hard-casting invis still seems to work just fine.

It works just fine, but results in slower leveling.

When you charm fight, you want to break your charm right when both mobs are about to die: if you break it sooner, you'll have to spend more mana to kill the two mobs. Ideally you want them both with 0.1% left, so you can just kill them with a quick low-level spell or a melee hit.

But when you "hard-cast" invis, you have to account for the casting time. That means you have to guess "the mos are at 10%, hopefully they'll be down to 1% when I finish casting". If you cast too early, they have too many HP left. If you cast too late, the mob dies before you break charm, and you get either 0% or 50% of its XP.

Instant-cast invis (from GGR) let's you break with no guesswork, at the latest moment possible. Over the course of a lot of charm fights that adds up ... a lot. For a charm class, virtually no other item in the game offers a similar increase in XP speed (only a very few like Fungi, JBB, or Lumi Staff).

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It works just fine, but results in slower leveling.

When you charm fight, you want to break your charm right when both mobs are about to die: if you break it sooner, you'll have to spend more mana to kill the two mobs. Ideally you want them both with 0.1% left, so you can just kill them with a quick low-level spell or a melee hit.

But when you "hard-cast" invis, you have to account for the casting time. That means you have to guess "the mos are at 10%, hopefully they'll be down to 1% when I finish casting". If you cast too early, they have too many HP left. If you cast too late, the mob dies before you break charm, and you get either 0% or 50% of its XP.

Instant-cast invis (from GGR) let's you break with no guesswork, at the latest moment possible. Over the course of a lot of charm fights that adds up ... a lot. For a charm class, virtually no other item in the game offers a similar increase in XP speed (only a very few like Fungi, JBB, or Lumi Staff).

It costs too much mana to try to line up both mobs dying around the same health. Either with a slow, a dot, or nukes on the enemy mob, no matter what it’s a waste of mana. Not only that, but if your mob happens to win, it ganks 50% of the exp

Therefore, the best method to charm kill for exp is in reverse, which means picking a pet that will for sure lose to the mob you are attacking it with. What I do is usually grab 2 enemy mobs if I can, and root them roughly in range of where I want my pet to fight

Keep 1 or both of the enemy mobs rooted, then mash the pet back off command when the pet is less than 10% health. This will ensure that only 1 max level nuke will finish it. It doesn’t matter how long it takes to cast invis, as long as it is less than the duration of root on the enemy mobs. Invis could take 35 seconds to cast and it would still work out. After pet is dead, pick the next most hurt mob to become the new pet, and sent it against something you know it cannot beat

No need for instant charm break this way

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It costs too much mana to try to line up both mobs dying around the same health. Either with a slow, a dot, or nukes on the enemy mob, no matter what it’s a waste of mana. Not only that, but if your mob happens to win, it ganks 50% of the exp

Therefore, the best method to charm kill for exp is in reverse, which means picking a pet that will for sure lose to the mob you are attacking it with. What I do is usually grab 2 enemy mobs if I can, and root them roughly in range of where I want my pet to fight

Keep 1 or both of the enemy mobs rooted, then mash the pet back off command when the pet is less than 10% health. This will ensure that only 1 max level nuke will finish it. It doesn’t matter how long it takes to cast invis, as long as it is less than the duration of root on the enemy mobs. Invis could take 35 seconds to cast and it would still work out. After pet is dead, pick the next most hurt mob to become the new pet, and sent it against something you know it cannot beat

No need for instant charm break this way

It depends on the mobs, but there are lots of places where you can absolutely find multiple animals of the same level (eg. http://wiki.project1999.com/Alligator%20Alley comes to mind). But whether you have mobs that are the same level or not is irrelevant; in any case, the GGR is going to let you break your pet reliable and instantly, and that's going to be hugely valuable when charm fighting. Casting invis will be neither reliable (with fizzles) or instant (and neither will racial hide).

To be clear: I'm not saying you need a GGR to charm fight! But I am saying that you will earn XP faster while charming with one than without.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It depends on the mobs, but there are lots of places where you can absolutely find multiple animals of the same level (eg. http://wiki.project1999.com/Alligator%20Alley comes to mind). But whether you have mobs that are the same level or not is irrelevant; in any case, the GGR is going to let you break your pet reliable and instantly, and that's going to be hugely valuable when charm fighting. Casting invis will be neither reliable (with fizzles) or instant (and neither will racial hide).

To be clear: I'm not saying you need a GGR to charm fight! But I am saying that you will earn XP faster while charming with one than without.

Ideal scenario would be areas where multiple mobs are around the same level range. But I’ve learned that even if both mobs are the same level range, your pet can always have a few rounds of hits when the enemy missed and be winning the fight. I’ve tried doing things like the /pet sit command to even things up, and never had much success with it

That’s why I personally switched to pulling multiple mobs at once with the pet. It is somewhat risky to do vs dark blues because of root breaks, but the surest way to ensure your pet loses any fight is to send it to aggro at least 2 other enemy mobs around, then pull pet back to an area relatively safe from pathers, then root+tash each of the 2 mobs killing the pet. The pet will be in melee range of both at once and so his health will plummet. But if needed, i can back the pet off and send him after one or the other mob individually if I want to slow down how fast the pet is dying. The only scenario where instant invis would be clutch would be if root broke off one or both of the enemy mobs as I was casting invis. I admit this does suck when it happens because if I timed pet back off correctly, it means 1-2 more rounds of melee kills the pet and costs me mana and time. But as long as root holds I’m golden to cast invis

The scenario that is more annoying is when there are only lower level mobs around the pet. In these cases I have to become a genocidal maniac and send the pet after literally anything remotely near me, which are going to be green cons that give zero exp. Even at a 5ish level difference the mobs can usually do SOME damage to the pet. After I kill about 3-5 of these, the pet is softened up enough to where another blue con that is lower level can kill it. Typically the pet will need to be around 50% health to lose to a mob that is 1 level lower. This takes me some trial and error to get right

To me, GGR seems like a super costly convenience item, like jboots, not something that fundamentally changes the class like torpor/epic for shaman. I would have to weigh out just how often it happens that root breaks on enemy mobs while I am casting invis, and the amount of time it would take to recoup that lost experience. Then figure out how much pp/hour I can grind before I reach a “break even” point on time saved to justify spending 8k+ of pp. I see rings auctioned all the time by the same people, so there doesn’t seem to be a scarcity of these in regards to the OP

[Andad_Filla]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It works just fine, but results in slower leveling.

The real question here is what slows your leveling down more, camping this ring for 100 hours (aka 60,000 med ticks) getting no XP or having to med for 1 more tick to recoup that invis mana? Trick question the correct answer is play a dark elf or wood elf charm class and use mana free hide while you are medding instead of dropping 8k on a gimmick or having to put invis on your spell bar at all! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Andad_Filla [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real question here is what slows your leveling down more, camping this ring for 100 hours (aka 60,000 med ticks) getting no XP or having to med for 1 more tick to recoup that invis mana? Trick question the correct answer is play a dark elf or wood elf charm class and use mana free hide while you are medding instead of dropping 8k on a gimmick or having to put invis on your spell bar at all! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except Hide is a total toss up with a long cool down for what you need it for. If your mobs are right at the end of their HP such that you’re breaking charm to kill them, if hide doesn’t work you’re gonna need to try and invis real quick rather than waiting for the hide cool down as if you wait one of those mobs is gonna be dead

[Shadeynight]

Originally Posted by Andad_Filla [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real question here is what slows your leveling down more, camping this ring for 100 hours (aka 60,000 med ticks) getting no XP or having to med for 1 more tick to recoup that invis mana? Trick question the correct answer is play a dark elf or wood elf charm class and use mana free hide while you are medding instead of dropping 8k on a gimmick or having to put invis on your spell bar at all! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd rather ask, what else are you going to spend your plat on? Hitting 200cha is pretty trivially done(probably less than 1k if you do the incandescent quests/find a couple desperate people trying to flood the economy with even more loam gear), and after that... sure hp/mana is nice, and rune aint free... but it would really be a question of GGR or Jboots, and if I had to have one or the other on my ench I'd take the ring every time. You could most likely easily farm the plat leveling in the 35-50 range any way. I think you're right though that camping this your self while leveling is dumb. Leave it to the bored high level necros laying on the spawn points day in and day out and go kill some guards lol.