New Bard w/ some questions

[Videri]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can reasonably extrapolate that 25 cha to being about 125% less likely to gt a crit lull resist. That sounds pretty damn good to me.

That would be about 25% less likely, not about 125% less likely. But yes, the more charisma the better.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And why aren't you lulling, charming or mezing at 60? do tell?

• I’m lulling, but only blue mobs. It lands most of the time. We can CC if it doesn’t.
• Charm song lasts 18 seconds. Charisma matters so little for that particular purpose.
• Mez will land almost every time on blue mobs, and last the full 18-second duration.

[Videri]

Guys, let’s return to the OP and other future readers.
One thing to consider is, what does one do as a bard and what percentage of one’s time will one be doing it? Individual players’ answers may differ.
• Group CC
• Group combat support, such as heal song, mana song, haste, slow, resists, rune song
• Tanking (I know, I know, bards aren’t tanks, but sometimes you get hit)
• Pulling, with or without lull
• AE kiting
• Other forms of kiting, such as fear-kiting with a rogue buddy
• Providing resist songs on a raid
• Running a lot (and avoiding being encumbered)
• More...?

When deciding how to allocate our starting points, we should consider the relative benefits our statistics provide to each of these activities.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would be about 25% less likely, not about 125% less likely. But yes, the more charisma the better.

You cant even do second grade level math.

Holy cow.

[Videri]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cant even do second grade level math.

Holy cow.

“95 Cha, 200 tests -- 71 critical resists (ie 35.5% crit rate)
200 Cha, 200 tests -- 15 critical resists (ie 7% crit rate)”

Looks like we were both wrong. It’s not 25%, 125%, or 500%.
7/35.5 = 19.7% as many crit resists
28.5/35.5 = 80.3% fewer crit resists

Is this right?

[Wallicker]

DMN who are your bards?

[GuiltyLight]

"Less likely" is kind of a wonky way to phrase statistics.

If you had 10 incidents out of x cycles, and after a change you had 5 incidents out of x cycles, you'd be better off saying something like "50% as many incidents", not "100% less likely to have an incident". That's just a weird way of putting it, especially when you start dealing with actual numbers and not nice, round examples. It's not wrong, it's just... weird.

It's like people who got tripped up by thac0 in AD&D. AC was a modifier, not the target number. But 99% of DMs tried to explain it as if AC was your TN. It's not technically wrong, because you can do it like that, but it just makes it less intuitive.

[Videri]

One important piece of info about lull mechanics: when you lull an NPC, the game first rolls to see whether it was resisted, based on level (not charisma). If you fail that check and it resists; then, it does a charisma check to see if the resist was critical. If you succeed on the initial resist check based on level, then charisma doesn’t come into play.

That’s why I said if you lull only blue mobs, charisma matters less than if you try to lull yellows. I’d avoid lulling yellow+, even if you put a lot of points in charisma.

So charisma is helpful for reducing critical lull resists. It’s just a matter of comparing the relative values of cha and sta, which different players may value differently.

As for me, I may make a bard on Green, and I think some of my points will go in charisma, but probably more in stamina, and possibly some in strength just for the encumbrance factor.

[DMN]

Actually, you've got it backwards. The crit fail chance precedes the lull chance. So you will get as many crit lulls per lull casts regardless if yellow or green.

[Benanov]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you certainly have a very low IQ.

Erudites can't be bards, so...that kind of goes without saying.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Videri

Hail! Would you weigh in in this thread on the question of how lull resists work? Is the resist check done first, based on level alone; followed by the critical resist check, based on charisma? Or backwards?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=345420&page=3

I figured you'd be the enc to ask.

I never did any testing really. I just assumed that first you have a chance for success or a chance for resist, and that if there is a resist you then have a chance for a "critical resist" that aggros, with charisma drastically reducing the chance of a critical resist.

A crit resist fail was such a huge pain most of the time that I wanted to lull anything that I just stacked cha to 250+ and was happy to do so, never really worrying about whether -20 cha for some extra AC or hp was a good trade because of how dangerous a crit lull fail is when you're monkeying around with rooms full of stuff that casts or harmtouches or whatever.

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, you've got it backwards. The crit fail chance precedes the lull chance. So you will get as many crit lulls per lull casts regardless if yellow or green.

If this is true, it'd be easy to verify. If the crit fail chance happens initially, then a 60 lulling a level 1 would basically only ever see a resist if it was also a critical resist. But a 60 lulling a 50 would see a lot of resists with relatively few (depending on charisma) of them being crit resists.