How the Lanys T'Vyl server handled events on Live

[DromalPhrenia]

The problem is that these resources (whether items or the dragons you get to kill to maybe get the items) are limited. With instanced content, everyone who wants to raid can do so every week. With non-instanced content (i.e. here on p99), only one guild can kill whatever mob we're discussing. Without instances, there's no way for you to get loot without someone else losing their opportunity.

With competition, everyone theoretically has a shot. Whether it be by joining a raid guild, or recruiting to their own guild, or forming an alliance, whatever it may be, they have an opportunity to be the ones to kill the dragon and get the loot. With a rotation, only one guild has that opportunity. The others are denied of loot flat-out.

I'm personally not in favor of instances, but I don't understand why anyone would argue for rotations OVER instances. With both options, you have an uncontested opportunity to kill the dragon and a chance for the loot to drop. With instances, everyone else has that same chance. With rotations, everyone else is denied that mob and that loot for X amount of days/weeks, and once you have your shot, you are denied that mob and that loot for the same number of days/weeks. What is the advantage to rotations over instances?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DromalPhrenia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is that these resources (whether items or the dragons you get to kill to maybe get the items) are limited. With instanced content, everyone who wants to raid can do so every week. With non-instanced content (i.e. here on p99), only one guild can kill whatever mob we're discussing. Without instances, there's no way for you to get loot without someone else losing their opportunity.

Right, and for ten years that guild has been the first to engage or the first to win the CotH race or the first to play whatever non-classic but as-close-as-we-can-come-to-classic competition.

I just think letting some other criteria, even a pure random roll (like the one I won to lead the Vox raid on Bristlebane), for some raid content would be nice because it would let people other than those "competitors" see that content. People not in guilds, people in smaller guilds, etc. Again, it's about more people getting to play classic EQ and see its content.

Originally Posted by DromalPhrenia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is the advantage to rotations over instances?

They're classic (to a debatable degree); instances very clearly aren't, as they weren't introduced until LDoN.

[DromalPhrenia]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, and for ten years that guild has been the first to engage or the first to win the CotH race or the first to play whatever non-classic but as-close-as-we-can-come-to-classic competition.

I just think letting some other criteria, even a pure random roll (like the one I won to lead the Vox raid on Bristlebane), for some raid content would be nice because it would let people other than those "competitors" see that content. People not in guilds, people in smaller guilds, etc. Again, it's about more people getting to play classic EQ and see its content.

I feel like this is true for anything in Everquest though. I don't want to sit in line to get the Pained Soul for the VP key, and even if I had the camp I probably can't stay logged in long enough for it to spawn. So my options are to not go to VP, or buy the piece from someone who can manage these things. Similarly, if your guild can't compete, your options are to just not compete, or endeavor to make your guild capable of competing, or join a guild that fits the criteria of what you want.

That's not even specific to Everquest, honestly. If you want to raid in other MMOs, you need to join a guild that raids. If you want to go for the hardest raids, you need people who are pushing for the hardest content. If you want server firsts, you need to join an even more dedicated raiding guild.

The difference in my mind is that people who do not raid in a competitive raid scene are doing so because they either can not, or will not. With a rotation, people are kept out of content because they are not allowed to do it. You are ready, you are able, but it isn't your turn. The people in the former camp have the option to play better or play more; the people in the latter camp have no option.

This is true even within the raiding guilds themselves; I often choose to spend time on RL things that I consider more important than Everquest, which means I attend less raids, which means I contribute less to my guild, which means I won't get loot as quickly, won't spend time with my EQ friends as much, won't have fun playing the game Everquest as often. I have a choice in the matter.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're classic (to a debatable degree); instances very clearly aren't, as they weren't introduced until LDoN.

If our goal is to expose the greatest number of people to those raids and that loot, arguing about classic doesn't seem relevant. The server already has several unclassic tweaks, not all of them in the interest of most fun to the players. Instances are a way of letting more people see the raid part of the game, without denying that content to existing raiders. And I disagree with your perspective that rotations such as the one in the OP qualify as classic because of the time frame we have been in Velious. On Live, the serious Raid Guilds had new content to play; p99 has no such new content.

[Aviann]

That material got rotated because there was bigger and better material for the raid scene to introduce themselves into... We don't have that here. Also, a PUR is not a rotation. If you wanna see more, do more of that. In the meantime, stop trying to change the literal ENDGAME of our server into something it shouldn't be. Most of the people that are asking for rotations aren't asking for naggy and vox to be rotated, they're asking for ToV and bigger and better things... Its never gonna be that way, and if by some small chance it does become rotated, you can sure as hell bet that most of the playerbase that competes will find something new to get into... Something the ones asking for rotations should be doing instead.

You can't base rotations on live with rotations here when the material we have to work with is a tiny fraction of what they have on live. Bottom line.

[Aviann]

If anything, limit the number of people in each guild and let the best skilled or most dedicated take the prize. Nobody can bitch about equal measures after that... This is such an old fight, and you will never win it Loramin. Join a better guild or start using new strategies that will put you ahead.

[Maelstrom]

Damn, Kedge Keep was happenin' back in the day.

[Pyrrhica]

All Gnome PoH Raid on Saturday, February 3rd, 2001.

Live was awesome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Puluin]

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://haemish.fortunecity.ws/vision.html

(Forum link is broke it seems and I'm not familiar with dredging up archived pages )

This was karana server council of guilds that worked together so everyone could experience raid content. Larger guilds would step back and watch smallet guilds make attempts and if help was needed, step in to help without expectation of loot.

This worked quite well until the 1.5 epic bottlenecks during luclin in combination with the gms being less active in enforcing PnP.

When PoP hit there became too much content for any given guild to need or even want to monopolize any given target.

Tl[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]r when people aren't selfish greedy a-holes, a cooperative server does work.

[Zal22]

Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://haemish.fortunecity.ws/vision.html

(Forum link is broke it seems and I'm not familiar with dredging up archived pages )

This was karana server council of guilds that worked together so everyone could experience raid content. Larger guilds would step back and watch smallet guilds make attempts and if help was needed, step in to help without expectation of loot.

This worked quite well until the 1.5 epic bottlenecks during luclin in combination with the gms being less active in enforcing PnP.

When PoP hit there became too much content for any given guild to need or even want to monopolize any given target.

Tl[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]r when people aren't selfish greedy a-holes, a cooperative server does work.

Karana only rotated old world, everything else was ffa.

We were not a hardcore server though, so generally if you setup for a mob nobody would step on your toes and you could have multiple attempts.

1.5 in Luclin? What?

[Puluin]

Originally Posted by Zal22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Karana only rotated old world, everything else was ffa.

We were not a hardcore server though, so generally if you setup for a mob nobody would step on your toes and you could have multiple attempts.

1.5 in Luclin? What?

In hindsight i may be remembering something else from luclin, I fondly remember there being a bottleneck for something that the large guilds fought over like the raid scene on p99. I did not double check my memory...

Though I do remember having a rotation for trak, gorn, ToV and tunare.

Thanks for the correction.