Are Rangers still hated in Velious era?

[Troxx]

I played a ranger as a main from kunark to after PoP on live. OoW I made the full switch to warrior. I was there for the noobish cluelessness, the bad, the ugly, and ultimately the good. Prior to Luclin they were fun but not overwhelmingly powerful. Luclin AA and archery stuff changed everything. With defensive aa they were plenty durable and with AM3/EQ they were kings of dps. They remained rock solid dps for many expansions but started to fall into mediocrity from the planes of Time gear level and onward as high end melee dmg again outpaced non-trueshot archery.

Here? Fun to play. Reasonable utility. Ok though somewhat disappointing tanks. Ok dps. Bad healers. Limited buffers. Great outdoor pullers.

That’s about it.

Good overall class ... but not (as the wall of text above asserts) “one of the strongest classes in the game”.

Not by a long shot.

I love the class but I’m also a realist.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here? Fun to play. Reasonable utility. Ok though somewhat disappointing tanks. Ok dps. Bad healers. Limited buffers. Great outdoor pullers.

That’s about it.

I played a ranger in real classic eq and kunark. As well as one here too. This is my estimation as well.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here? Fun to play. Reasonable utility. Ok though somewhat disappointing tanks. Ok dps. Bad healers. Limited buffers. Great outdoor pullers

I'm gonna grade rangers based on that list. While I am bias, I'll do my best to check the hyperbole. Any comparison to other classes assumes everybody has equal quality gear.
-----

Utility: A-
Lots of natural utility like snare and root and can gain even more from items such as a slow proc from Earthcaller, or gating with Tolan's BP, etc. Weapon shield also adds a lot of utility for a variety of uses.

Tanking: B+
From 1-40 rangers are pretty much on par with warriors and knights in terms of mitigation. By 60 Rangers can still tank but warriors, knights, monks, and even rogues will be able to mitigate and avoid damage to a greater degree. However, Rangers have a superior control of aggro - with great snap aggro, very good sustained aggro, and the ability to jolt to lower aggro if needed.

DPS: A
Less DPS than a rogue and on par with a monk (for now). DPS can be raised by a great deal by using the true shot disc.

Healing: D-
A ranger can CH, but it will take about about 20-30 casts. It's more healing than a fungi or an invigorate bp, but a hell of a lot more mana. Can quickly go oom.

Buffing: B
Ranger get very good buffs for anybody who wants to melee dps. They also get inferior versions of druid buffs if a group is lacking something.

Outdoor pulling: A+
Harmony trivializes pulling in outdoor zones.

Fun: A+
Graded with complete bias.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There you have it folks. Hes a realist! This is why some guilds are capable of completing end game content and acquiring best in slot drops as opposed to... whats your guild doing? Fear golems?
It might be a good idea to practice restraint until you rate being considered credible in regards to the topic. It would be a shame if someone was discouraged from playing a ranger just because you weren't capable of utilizing the class' full potential and felt the need to discredit the class.


Disclaimer: I'm not saying rangers are the sole reason to do end game content but it is safe to say raiding would be a lot more chaotic without them!

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ugh alleriah’s autistic screetching...

[Legidias]

I mean, stick NToV gear on any melee (except a rogue maybe) and they can tank well. Same with weaps. Stating that a fully end game geared XXX can top a board doesnt really mean anything if the next person only has epic or less equipped.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, stick NToV gear on any melee (except a rogue maybe) and they can tank well. Same with weaps. Stating that a fully end game geared XXX can top a board doesnt really mean anything if the next person only has epic or less equipped.

For the record rogue is much better potential tank than often given credit for.

Saying NToV is unattainable is a bit of a straw man. Even 'lower end' velious stuff such as crystal chitin will let a ranger reach point of diminishing returns for much content.

[Troxx]

I really shouldn’t engage Alleriah but I can’t help myself [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damage mitigation:

Hit for hit ... round for round ... and gear being equal ... rangers take more damage than any other melee class. This includes plate tanks, bards, monks, and even rogues. Yes, even rogues will physically take less damage than rangers. Let that sink in for a moment. So, assuming your goal is to live while getting hit, rangers do that worse than literally every single other melee class in this game. Now we all know that being able to take a hit means nothing if you can’t hold threat. Rangers accomplish this well but don’t forget that 3 other classes can also do this on demand along with taking those hits better. Of the 4 classes who have instant and on demand aggro rangers are the least survivable. Warriors suffer from proc reliance but those worth their salt have the tools to get the job done.

Damage output potential has been hashed out over and over again. We know precisely where each class stands and gear being equal rangers, though capable, do not shine brighter than most other classes.

Once all classes have done the whole “get better gear”, many will tank better and many will put out more damage. Some classes (warrior) are capable of doing both better. Set up for strictly offense warrior with buffs/precision +/- berserk mode put out ludicrous numbers. Hunkered down for tanking ... again we again all precisely know just how well warriors tank. Even after defensive drops, no other class has more hp and no other class mitigates as well though there is an honorable mention on this front to monks with good gear and superior avoidance (this too is known and well established.

I have a lot of love for the ranger class. They are extremely capable. They bring balanced offense and defense to the table along with some unique capabilities that even you (Alleriah) have mentioned. Weaponshield is an ace up your sleeve. Keeping it around locks you out of offensive prowess depending on your setup but it’s well worth it. Rangers tank well enough to get the job done if appropriately geared. Spellbook adds a lot of versatility and remains another feather in the class’s cap.

They are super fun to play. Good class. Plenty of global power. The power is spread out but it’s there’s. I will say again though that I am a realist. I don’t drink the koolaid and neither do most of the people here.

Your attempt to win the argument by referencing content consistently captured is cute. Being a member of a high population guild of high playtime people makes a person neither smart/informed nor talented. I work 60 hours a week and have a family. I’ve been around for years and have approached p99 casually, only recently started raiding (hence my horde of high level toons). I don’t have BiS gear because I voluntarily let the sun set in my hardcore raiding habits well over a decade ago. My guild? I enjoy my guildmates and would happily play with them regardless of the content they capture. Content thus far has included numerous NToV named, tunare, and other crap all the way down. EQ isn’t hard and getting kills on this server is more a function of total warmbodies on the roster and relative playtime of each. Those with jobs and families they’re unwilling to neglect will have less playtime.

Being a warmbody amongst the horde and acquiring participation points traded in for imaginary loot doesn’t make you talented. Your pixels don’t make you smart. Your posts are not insightful, but please don’t stop posting. Your rambling delusions have a lot of entertainment value.

[Loadsamoney]

Yeah, Greater Healing isn't exactly going to be all that good at 57 so I don't see a Ranger doing any backup healing, but Rangers do at least get Chloroplast as well, so I'll definitely mix that into the rotation to help ease the healers burden, or at least a little more self sufficiency.

I was going to ask that, while they still can't compete with Druids and Shamans, I would think that Paladins still make decent secondary healers just because of the fact that they eventually get the spell Superior Healing?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, Greater Healing isn't exactly going to be all that good at 57 so I don't see a Ranger doing any backup healing, but Rangers do at least get Chloroplast as well, so I'll definitely mix that into the rotation to help ease the healers burden, or at least a little more self sufficiency.

I was going to ask that, while they still can't compete with Druids and Shamans, I would think that Paladins still make decent secondary healers just because of the fact that they eventually get the spell Superior Healing?

Heh, a paladin at 59 has more efficient healing than a druid or non torpor shaman. Longer recast though, but assuming it doesn’t need to be casted more than every 30 sec it’s better than nature’s touch and superior heal/chloroblast. Pallies dps still sucks, but velious made them fantastic healers for a melee class.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heh, a paladin at 59 has more efficient healing than a druid or non torpor shaman. Longer recast though, but assuming it doesn’t need to be casted more than every 30 sec it’s better than nature’s touch and superior heal/chloroblast. Pallies dps still sucks, but velious made them fantastic healers for a melee class.

Why? Celestial Cleansing? Or just having Superior Heal as an option?