Solo Melee class

[welly321]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The errand-running stuff is just a multitude of low-difficulty, easily soloable tasks. Time-consuming, sure, but that's literally all it is: a timesink.



Most people will not be able to do that, even if they are guilded. And if they are, there's a very good chance their guild will have no idea about how to kill VS and will just throw 40 players at him, watch them all get lifetapped into oblivion, wipe, and then he despawns. Try again in 12 hours or whatever. It's a high-difficulty step in the quest when compared to the preceding steps.

CSG has that fight down to a science. They make it look easy, but to pretty much any other casual raiding guild on the server, VS is not a walk in the park. So more often than not that is the bottleneck in the quest. It wasn't for me, but it'd be myopic of me to say, "Oh, that shit was easy for me, so that must mean it's easy for everyone!"

just admit your bad at everquest

[georgie]

I've seen an sk solo year on red. I hope this solidifies your decision.

[Foxplay]

There are only a few key mechanics to consider in terms of solo power when it comes to the melee classes.

As anyone who has played EQ should know, NPC's scale faster than players. Level 60 warrior player = lets say 4k hp depending on gear . Level 60 warrior NPC 10k+ some higher. But also there melee damage also scales higher, even with good weapons melee players will be hitting in the 40s - 80s, mid 100s to low 200's for a 2hander. While NPC's can quad for 120 - 150 in just the 50s, some mobs higher.

So the key mechanic is to avoid melee damage entirely, prevent it or mitigating it comes secondary, out-healing or out damaging it is 3rd rung

Monks only real way of entirely avoiding melee damage (while still hurting the mob themself) is via stun proc's such as Tstaff. Their mitigation is pretty decent. And for healing they have mend, which is pretty good and scales with gear but its limited use due to its cooldown. As for damage depending on gear they can have really good damage. But by not having a significant method of completely avoiding melee damage monks fall short in terms of solo power due to scaling. *epic adds to dps capability

Shadowknight can completely avoid most if not all melee damage via (snare/fear) kiting, thus it becomes their mana pool and melee dmg versus just a health pool *so long as the fear is safe and does not run into more mobs*. Their mitigation is good being a tank class and able to wear plate. For out healing they have life taps which can go a long way but I wouldn't expect any miracles, the more mana used on life taps means less mana to keep snare/fear up constantly which avoiding damage entirely > healing damage in EQ. Damage wise SK is ok but nothing to write home about unless you are geared to the absolute teeth (TOVN weapons), Due to the ability to completely avoid melee damage SK is definitely a rung above monk - *epic adds to SK healing capability

Ranger like SK can completely avoid melee damage provided it is a non-summoning mob via Bow-kiting, all this requires is snare (very low mana) lots of arrows (can be summoned with tolan bracer but takes a lot of time) and a decent amount of space. Although this method can be slow it can kill anything unable to summon that is not a caster aka straight melee npcs the main cost being only time as spell wise this is very mana efficient. However due to its stipulations it does limit the areas that it can be used. Mitigation rangers are decent not as good as SK, but better than monk if similar gear if you don't count mend. Without bow-kiting rangers can snare/fear too but are limited to animals which again limits where the method can be used, but will save a lot of time not summoning arrows. In a straight up melee fight rangers are fairly decent, with self regen, and thorns and decent melee dps + dot ticks. Healing wise without running any numbers id say rangers are on par with SK who is using a lot of mana for lifetaps, as constant regen, and small little heals after fights do add up. *Epic adds greatly to melee mitigation via a slow proc

If we consider these major mechanics, and compare 3 equally geared to the teeth + epic . Monk / SK / Ranger

I would say Ranger is strongest solo, but not by much mainly because is more situational. I would personally rate ranger just ever so slightly above SK due to the slow proc on their epic. (Slow = Lots of dmg mitigation)

Shadowknight is best well rounded, and less situational melee solo power

Monk, while better than rogue and warrior really cant compare to mechanics that can completely avoid melee damage that the ranger and SK hybrids have in their spells when considering simply for flat out solo power

If you throw bard into the mix just forget it, they win, no contest.

[georgie]

Originally Posted by georgie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've seen an sk solo year on red. I hope this solidifies your decision.

Yendar*

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by georgie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yendar*

That's pretty impressive.

[Troxx]

Rangers are better at mitigating (combining AC mitigation and avoidance here) than monks?

Lol.

No.

Your other points are very valid but that bit is insanely wrong. Monk mitigation is better than, comparable to, or second only to warriors depending on gear.

[Foxplay]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers are better at mitigating (combining AC mitigation and avoidance here) than monks?

Lol.

No.

Your other points are very valid but that bit is insanely wrong. Monk mitigation is better than, comparable to, or second only to warriors depending on gear.

And you prove how little you know, mitigation wise if a ranger procs slow sword they are absolutely better at mitigating damage than monks + self regen and some buffs . On a pure solo basis monk has no self buffs at all (unless you count staff of sheilding proc?) Yet it does not matter in the slightest in terms of the original question. The full question was pertaining to each classes toolkit for solo strength. In which Ranger wins over monk hands down. A monk has no way of completely avoiding melee damage, self slowing the mob (without using clicks) while their base mitigation / avoidance AC may be slightly higher than a ranger, after you count regen, self buffs, and slow proc ranger takes a huge lead *mostly with the proc* mitigation is not soley how much AC and avoidance you have you have to take into account abilities and healing that dramatically increase your effective hp, and slow is an enourmas contribution to that

If you are considering total mitigation to be just standing there, no buffs, no slow at all then a monk > ranger. Also in group situations with other classes buffs Monk > Ranger. But this discussion is about solo power which narrows it down to each classes specific toolkit assuming no outside help.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Foxplay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

while their base mitigation / avoidance AC may be slightly higher than a ranger

It's actually significantly higher. Rangers have an absolutely miserable defense cap, so when we're talking about overall damage mitigation, monk and ranger are probably a lot closer than you're imagining. Monk DPS is significantly higher, which means the mob dies faster - that combined with their vastly superior defense skills means they sustain significantly less damage per fight. Also take into consideration that iksars have innate regen which stacks with fungal regrowth, and mend being about an 8-minute cooldown.

And all of that's 100% consistent. A slow proc isn't guaranteed. Buffs also require upkeep, which is more downtime to mem and cast, and more downtime to recover mana. The monk just keeps on rolling, with maybe a short sit break here and there.

[Tenlaar]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also take into consideration that iksars have innate regen which stacks with fungal regrowth

At higher levels rangers can give themselves 12 hp/tic regen through spells, which actually puts them at a higher regen rate than an iksar.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At higher levels rangers can give themselves 12 hp/tic regen through spells, which actually puts them at a higher regen rate than an iksar.

Yep, although it is quite a bit of upkeep. Chloroplast only lasts about 20 minutes and depletes a lot of mana. I think I'm at 32 hp/tick on my ranger with Fungal Regrowth, Chloroplast, and Skin like Nature. Iksar innate regen is comparable to Chloroplast when sitting - it's 11 more hp per tick than standard innate regen sitting, 9 more feigning death, and 8 more standing. That's pretty significant. I feel bad for human monks.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're on a 25K budget things like fungis or cloak of flames or t-staffs are out of the question. Which brings us back to Monk....it's a fine class, but not for 20K. Some folks have been using expensive gear for so long I suspect they've forgotten what it's like to be low-end. A Monk with maybe a Peacebringer, a FBSS for haste, no epic, and no regen makes for a really lousy soloist. Either the Ranger or the Shadow Knight will fare better than the Monk would on the budget discussed. The Monk becomes a really attractive option if you plan to play through to the high end (north temple veeshan or equivalent) since the class benefits so strongly from that top-end gear.

I disagree - you could roll a monk with absolutely nothing except a fungi tunic and do extremely well, assuming you can afford just the fungi. They have naturally high AC as long as you stay under the weight limit - just equip a bunch of cheap stuff like Wu's and fill in the upgrades as you go. Fists by themselves are decent, and monk weapons are pretty cheap. You can't use your epic until level 51 anyway. I guess haste would be your only other concern, and you could grab SCHW for real cheap, or pay a little more for Sash of the Dragonborn or something.