Ogre still best sk?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I saw an Ogre Shaman do the impossible.

Thomas is right, ogre is always better when you can choose them as your character race, no matter the class.

FSI means you have a vastly better chance of getting your spells off and doing uninterrupted damage.

Being ogre means better starting stats, better survivabilty, and supreme tanking power granted through hidden stats that only ogres get.

Regen is useless when you are dead.

Go ogre, you will have no regrets.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...better starting stats, better survivabilty, and supreme tanking power granted through hidden stats that only ogres get.

There are no 'hidden stats'. This forum is not the place for lies and misdirection. Take that to RnF.

Danth

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are no 'hidden stats'. This forum is not the place for lies and misdirection. Take that to RnF.

Danth

How do you know that?

I have seen others say the same and you didn't chime in on their post they needed to go to RnF.

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races.

Try it out yourself, Danth.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you know that?

I have seen others say the same and you didn't chime in on their post they needed to go to RnF.

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races.

Try it out yourself, Danth.

Rofl

I can never tell if this guy is just trolling for giggles or he legitimately believes the horse shit he posts.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know no better than me and from anecdotal evidence (same as yours opposing my viewpoint btw) ogre really performs above and beyond other races..

They get a short-term stat bonus compared to other races for a long-term size handicap. I've never once said, gee I wish we had more ogres at this raid. It's a little too easy to move my character. (Eveyone hates them)

[Vexenu]

The Regen vs. FSI debate is different for SKs than Shaman. With a Shaman, efficiency is a huge part of the class. Stacking regen is a big deal. And that's not to say that regen is worthless on an SK. It definitely isn't. But there are other factors to consider, namely survivability. As an SK you will be tanking or pulling basically 100% of the time. You will be getting hit a lot, and often by multiple mobs. You will invariably find yourself in bad situations where you need to get a FD off immediately or you'll be dead. FSI inarguably helps with those situations.

Regen definitely makes you more efficient, but as an SK your job isn't to be efficient. It's to be the beefiest tank you can be. It's to survive the inevitable nasty situations you get into while pulling. Simply put, it's to stay alive for as long as possible. Regen is great over a long period of time, but in those critical seconds that decide between living and a nasty CR, it's much more important to be able to successfully channel FD or spam lifetaps/skin.

And it's not like an Ogre SK can't regen, either. With Fungi/Regrowth:

Troll/Iksar standing regen at 60: 420 hp per min
Ogre standing regen at 60: 340 hp per min

So from a realistic perspective it's not a question of enormous regen vs. no regen and FSI. It's slightly better regen vs. FSI.

All that being said, regen is still obviously a very good racial. Iksar have a very strong case for being the best min/max SK race due to their excellent combo of racials (regen, AC, not a large race). But Ogre FSI is a really, really strong racial that is not to be underestimated. No amount of gear can ever make up for it. An Ogre can shrink, he can stack his AC and regen with gear and spells, but a non-Ogre can never achieve FSI.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will invariably find yourself in bad situations where you need to get a FD off immediately or you'll be dead. FSI inarguably helps with those situations.

Too bad this is quite literally the only situation where FSI actually comes into play. Any other times, the extra regen is without a doubt superior to FSI.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regen definitely makes you more efficient, but as an SK your job isn't to be efficient. It's to be the beefiest tank you can be. It's to survive the inevitable nasty situations you get into while pulling. Simply put, it's to stay alive for as long as possible.

If survivability is really what matters the most, then Iksar AC/regen together definitely beats FSI which has the tiniest window of usefulness of all the racial abilities available for an SK.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With Fungi/Regrowth:

Troll/Iksar standing regen at 60: 420 hp per min
Ogre standing regen at 60: 340 hp per min

Lol @ intentionally skewing the benefit of the regen by adding other sources of regen. Please repost without including outside buffs.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Too bad this is quite literally the only situation where FSI actually comes into play. Any other times, the extra regen is without a doubt superior to FSI.

Those are pretty important situations, though. You can't just gloss over them. It's literally going to save your life when it happens. It's sort of like an insurance policy that pays out big infrequently, where regen is a constant small drip of money in your pocket. Which is better? It depends on your playstyle (solo/duo a lot vs. full groups, pull a lot, like to push the limits and get into dangerous situations, etc...) and what you value most.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If survivability is really what matters the most, then Iksar AC/regen together definitely beats FSI which has the tiniest window of usefulness of all the racial abilities available for an SK.

This very well may be true. I said as much. But as I also pointed out, regen and AC can be acquired through spells and gear. FSI cannot. Does that mean FSI is unquestionably better? No. But it's an advantage that no other race will ever enjoy.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol @ intentionally skewing the benefit of the regen by adding other sources of regen. Please repost without including outside buffs.

I did that because those will be the practical regen values most people will actually be playing with at 60 when duoing, pulling or tanking for a group. Saying Troll/Iksar regen 80 more hp per minute is one thing (80 vs. 0 sounds stark), contrasting the actual likely regen numbers (420 vs 340) puts it into better perspective.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did that because those will be the practical regen values most people will actually be playing with at 60 when duoing, pulling or tanking for a group. Saying Troll/Iksar regen 80 more hp per minute is one thing (80 vs. 0 sounds stark), contrasting the actual likely regen numbers (420 vs 340) puts it into better perspective.

But it's a skewed perspective none-the less. Your scenario makes a lot of flawed assumptions like every group has regen or every SK has a fungi. It's just not realistic.

[demokatt]

I picked ogre for solo play, not for stun imunity but for str 140 and sta 127 - thinking I would kill em off faster not needing to regen as much :-)