What would be more DPS for my rogue? Upgrading my haste item or offhand?

[KorafRN]

if you use similar ratio mh/oh, and RB to backstab, you should see around 40/40/20 split. Rb/claw parses is just heavily skewed because you're using a kunark ratio wep with a velious ratio wep for auto attack dmg. It's probably not the norm for your offhand to fire more often than your mainhand.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you math me dragonspine rapier + Rage, Rage + Claw of Lightning, dragonspine + claw please?

I'm leaning towards Rapier + Rage as much as it'd pain me to bank Claw.

Personally I've never been a fan of dragonspine rapier because of the proc being really high threat, which means a bad string of failed evades plus some "lucky" procs can lead to an unpleasant situation.

Also, I'm almost 100% positive that mainhand damage bonus is unmodified by ATK or mob AC so that means my calculations for the above post are either slightly off or 10 ATK is worth a little bit more than 1% dps. Personally, I think that ATK stacks really well with itself, it seems to give more value per point the more of it you have but this is entirely speculation and I have no concrete proof.

I can't really give a fully accurate comparison for mainhand weapons as I'm not quite sure on how much weapon damage will raise your average backstab by. Estimating backstab damage in general is incredibly fickle. I'm going to make a bold assumption and say 1 point of weapon damage will increase your average backstab by about 15 damage(this is based off some parses where rogues using epic in mainhand have an average backstab of anywhere from 18-30~ damage higher than myself using a 13 damage weapon) in these calculations, and that your average backstab damage with a 14 damage weapon is 200.

If we trust the wiki and the hidden value for double attack is 400, that'd give us a double attack chance of 60%. I couldn't find anything on dual wield but im going to assume the chance for it to trigger is close enough to where it simply cancels out with double attack because I'm lazy. More numerical vomit below.


this model seems to be relatively accurate, but is obviously not perfect. feel free to pick it apart/point out flaws.

rb(15/25) vs dsr(14/21) vs claw(14/18)
assuming 41% haste + vog (i just realized i used 40% weapon haste for ragebringer and 41% for claw in my previous post, i think i rounded differently was well, oops)
avg dps forumla = [(Weapon Damage*2)/(Delay in seconds/haste as a decimal)] + 10/(Delay in Seconds/Haste as a decimal)
i leave the epic atk bonus out of this.
for dps after double attack you just multiply the above by 1.6
rb avg dps no dmg bonus = 23.89 -- DPS of damage bonus = 7.96 - DPS after mainhand double attack = 38.224 | dmg bonus after da 12.736
dsr avg dps no dmg bonus = 26.54 -- DPS of damage bonus = 9.48 - dps after mh double attack = 42.464 | dmg bonus after da 15.168
claw avg dps no dmg bonus = 30.94

proc dps for the rapier (duration is 1 minute so I'm assuming you have high dex, can maintain the dot, the mob never moves, and it never gets resisted. for a more realistic number, multiply this dps by your uptime of the dot so 65% uptime = dps*.65)
dsr avg proc dps theoretical = 7.5 (45 damage per tic, 100% uptime, so 45/6)
in reality the proc will probably be less than 1/2 as effective as this, if not worse. Im going to use 3.5 dps for calculations below, or slightly less than half value.

im using 200 and 215 for avg backstab dmg
backstab dps for dsr = 59.7 = (avg backstab dmg/backstab cooldown)*1.5
backstab dps for rb = 64.19

generic dps forumla is: [(Mainhand DPS + Backstab DPS + Offhand dps)*rbATKbonus + DamagebonusDPS]*accuracy + Proc DPS
Im using rbATKbonus as 1.054 (epic giving 54 ATK) for these
rb+claw = [(38.224 + 64.19 + 30.94)*1.054 + 12.736]*.65 = 99.64 DPS
dsr+claw = [(42.464 + 59.7 + 30.94) + 15.168]*.65 + 3.5 = 99.88 DPS
dsr+rb = [(42.464 + 59.7 + 23.76)*1.054 + 15.168]*.65 + 3.5 = 99.63 DPS

rapier + claw combo wins by a very small margin. if you get an ideal proccing situation the setups using DSR will pull ahead, as well as in situations with high AC mobs(however these mobs are
probably going to resist the proc more often as well). However, if your accuracy is above 65% because of mob level/luck or if you're fighting lower AC mobs then you'll see the rb+claw combo pull ahead.

Based on the data from using this model (i think its kinda close to reality, but still flawed so keep that in mind) i'd roll with epic+claw. you get to avoid dealing with proc luck and generating a lot more aggro that can lead to getting slam dunked because of bad evade strings. this will matter less on raids, but is still relevant. you also get the benefit of the stats on epic, scaling better with buffs/other sources of ATK, more benefit from duelist disc etc.

[Lowako]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Could you show me a few logs showing the difference between offhand, mainhand, and Backstab dmg. I've been using double piercer for forever so I can't tell the difference between mainhand, and offhand dps, but the 40/40/20 split doesn't seem right to me looking at my parses.

I had to look at parses from other rogues where I saw pierce + slash/blunt so I cant speak for specifics. This was also just the general trend, rb+claw is going to skew in favor of claw, high AC(most kael stuff, tov dragons, tunare etc) mobs when you aren't fully ATK buffed will skew in favor of the mainhand(this is incredibly prominent on bristlebane). Backstab luck plays a pretty big role in your damage splits as well. There is also going to be variance with anything involving any kind of melee in everquest because it is wildly luck dependent. Here are some parses from an awakened+CSG joint AoW on a repop.

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I'm not certain what weapons most of the people are using, but I'm pretty sure samila and fuge are using RB+claw. All of those are from the same encounter, from my perspective. I didn't die and was in melee range the entire encounter so the above parses should be 99.9% accurate.

[Pezy]

Combined every boss fight over the last ~7 days I've done on my Rogue using RB/Claw, if this helps anyone.

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[Jimjam]

I'm surprised at how big a proportion of damage those slash attacks are doing!

[Pezy]

I was kinda surprised too. More of a testament to how terrible the ratio on the RB is though.