Left - Right : Epiphany

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You need some Hans-Hermann Hoppe in your life. In short its libertarian minarchism with a strong emphasis on physically removing leftist subverters from society. I personally dont see that coming about though without an authoritarian period to enforce the "purge" . I was with you up until "I actually agree with Alarti". Alarti is the type that if he had any power he would be HRC.

Just read up on HHH and it is just the kind of thing that I would expect to see come out of a libertarian state. I like the emphasis on freedom of association and exclusion and think people should be free to group as they like and I'd expect a wide variety of local flavors to spring up ^^ So long as they held to libertarian principles I don't see the issue.

Libertarian minarchism fits the bill pretty darn well of what I think is ideal for a capitalistic societies. Localities could govern themselves as the saw fit and people could find peace with their own.

You run into the same challenge that I mentioned earlier with differences (potentially drastic) in law from place to place complicating interstate/municipality travel/relations of course, but for the most part people are free to do as they like be it build a family, amass a fortune or die in a ditch.

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just read up on HHH and it is just the kind of thing that I would expect to see come out of a libertarian state. I like the emphasis on freedom of association and exclusion and think people should be free to group as they like and I'd expect a wide variety of local flavors to spring up ^^ So long as they held to libertarian principles I don't see the issue.

Libertarian minarchism fits the bill pretty darn well of what I think is ideal for a capitalistic societies. Localities could govern themselves as the saw fit and people could find peace with their own.

You run into the same challenge that I mentioned earlier with differences (potentially drastic) in law from place to place complicating interstate/municipality travel/relations of course, but for the most part people are free to do as they like be it build a family, amass a fortune or die in a ditch.

Ok now you are thinking but you have to take it all the way. How do you protect this society from larger statist systems? or a cabal of smaller groups working to control things like international commerce? I bet the native Americans thought they had a pretty ideal minarchist system going until they ran into better organized state powers that had no qualms about acquiring their resources and lands by force.

[Nihilist_santa]

Ive thought it would be interesting to have as your government a class of people who are not allowed to own property or amass wealth but have all of their needs taken care of by the state. It could be a possible hedge against the ability to buy influence. This is similar to Platos idea of the silver class of auxiliaries but not quite or some could even say party members in 1984 unlike the proles who were allowed to be degenerates.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ive thought it would be interesting to have as your government a class of people who are not allowed to own property or amass wealth but have all of their needs taken care of by the state. It could be a possible hedge against the ability to buy influence. This is similar to Platos idea of the silver class of auxiliaries but not quite or some could even say party members in 1984 unlike the proles who were allowed to be degenerates.

This is an interesting proposition and could have some merit^^ The only problem I see with it is enforcement. Politicians already accept all sorts of property they are not permitted to.

[fash]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We either need less government or a massive shift to the left and if we are going to go there, it needs to be absolute.

I don't really see any practical solution and it is why I prefer things to just stay where they are

A massive shift to the left won't help. That's the opposite of what you'd want.

As long as there is a large government that the left can control (e.g. via democracy) you can expect there to always be a shift further and further toward the left & larger government e.g. US for the last century or Soviet Russia.

The idea of left libertarianism is a contradiction in terms.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A massive shift to the left won't help. That's the opposite of what you'd want.

No, I'd prefer things to just stay as they are actually, but in an environment of increasing authoritarianism, no, I would not want a shift further to the right because then that just results in a super corporation controlling all wealth and using the formidable arm of government to destroy opposition.

As long as there is a large government that the left can control (e.g. via democracy) you can expect there to always be a shift further and further toward the left & larger government e.g. US for the last century or Soviet Russia.

Large government is necessary on the left and awful on the right.

The idea of left libertarianism is a contradiction in terms.

No it isn't ^^ I'm not talking about the American political party, I'm talking about Libertarianism as the antithesis of Authoritarianism. Here's an example of what I was talking about:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

[Nihilist_santa]

HRC and Lune actually line up pretty well as progressive neo-corporatist. It explains his results in the political alignment thread. This also places them firmly on the left. Corporatism has taken on a different kind of connotation in the present than it had in the past.

[Nihilist_santa]

Nice ^

[maskedmelon]

lol

Thank Hathor for Google.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As most of you know, I am somewhat politically confused with a mix of views from different points along the left-right continuum and have expressed (or maybe not?) somewhat dissonant views on various topics. Most of this I've attributed to differences in reasoned understandings and preferences.

Well yeah in the established 2D view it's horrible. I think it's meant to confuse us, no I'm sure it is. Well you know how I rank in the general 3D view from those posted quizzes, closer to the center than most/all here, on a little right and a little libertarian. Not my ideal placement but what I've come to consider works in this environment.

But what I consider functioning is not our present reality in practice. It's all about name tags now, with the old names crossed out and something new scribbled in. Like Hillary is NOT "right", but left-authoritarian. Everything that falls out of her mouth is based on deception to get as many votes as possible by those not paying attention to what she's done over the decades. People like McCain are just the same, votes right along with it. Capitalism isn't capitalism, but primarily corporatism now, just as much as the middle-class has been suffering which imo best prospers under true free-market capitalism.

My 2D view is probably much different than left-right, but globalist-nationalist, more that counts to me, and I hates globalism. I mean great, people have their own ideas of it, but it still is what it is by practice regardless of the deceptive wording. Some people are willing to go with just what works, others their ideas of some utopian existence they were sold as just out of reach. And it seems the more they reach for utopia, the more they are handed dystopia. And confident in that if they reach for even more they eventually will get it, but it's just more about following the pied-piper and a total leftist-totalitarian existence.

Heck, I can hardly even call myself a conservative any longer because there is hardly anything left to conserve. I've become more the revolutionary I suppose, like from the 230 years ago perspective. You all live under the graces of the king and deal with his tyranny each and every day. And the king is mad in his new clothes, and the people are mad thinking he actually has clothing on.