Server rules on ancient cyclops spawn in OOT

[MiRo2]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The moment you have hard copies of written rules for every situation (which would be an encyclopedia anyway), you'll have people trying to bend them, twist them, reinterpret them...etc.

My point exactly, but even without it, you have people saying you can't hold a camp five minutes past getting your drop so a friend can take over, because this one time a guy camped an eight hour spawn for a couple months and a GM/Guide put an end to it.

Apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Stick to "don't be a dick" and you should be okay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This should literally be in the rule book. Would love to see more disputes settled at the expense of both parties involved because neither side could be civilized.

[Skinned]

Originally Posted by MiRo2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point exactly, but even without it, you have people saying you can't hold a camp five minutes past getting your drop so a friend can take over, because this one time a guy camped an eight hour spawn for a couple months and a GM/Guide put an end to it.

Apples to oranges.



This should literally be in the rule book. Would love to see more disputes settled at the expense of both parties involved because neither side could be civilized.

I think it would be up to the friend to be in line, and if a person is ahead of him in line, no cutting because you know the guy camping it.

[fastboy21]

Even with the "list rules" you can be a dick and play games by being dishonest. Putting alts on the list or guildmates not online yet. So and so is on the list, but he is playing his alt, etc...

Pure and simple: the EQ mechanics were either intentionally or unintentionally designed to always allow douchebagery. Its what makes the game so fun; not because we are douchebags, but because it makes real friendships and reputations mean more.

So: don't be a dick.

[Doctor Jeff]

If you want to take over the camp, why don't you just kill the guy that is doing it at the time?

[MiRo2]

Originally Posted by Skinned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it would be up to the friend to be in line, and if a person is ahead of him in line, no cutting because you know the guy camping it.

"I've been shouting LFG for the past two hours, and a spot opens in "Awesome Camp" group, but they have a guildy who just logged on and they give him the spot instead of me"

or

"My group is camping "Not so Awesome Camp", and there is another group at "Awesome Camp", but now their tank and healer are leaving, they have replacements coming, but my group stated they wanted to move to their camp an hour ago"

"This is unfair! The rules clearly state the camp is MINE!"



Player agreements or server norms, are player enforced. People need to quit looking upwards to settle disputes, and form a semi-cohesive community instead.

Players who went against server norms in Classic were ostracized, but so were players who did nothing but whine and complain to the zone or Guides/GMs for every, actual or perceived, slight against them.

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to take over the camp, why don't you just kill the guy that is doing it at the time?

o What guild is he in?
o Will a hit team show up to take it back?
o How will this make me look to the community?
o Can I even take this guy?

Are all legitimate questions to be asked in this situation. Unfortunately none of them matter on Red.

Project 1999 Red Server:
The quintessential Catch 22. It would be the BEST server around if it actually had a healthy player population and community to dole out occasional justice to the bad eggs; it will never be the best server because there isn't currently a healthly player population and community, because of the bad eggs currently there.

WipeItClean2016






P.S.
I haven't even been to the AC camp in OoT since 2011.

[Skinned]

Originally Posted by MiRo2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I've been shouting LFG for the past two hours, and a spot opens in "Awesome Camp" group, but they have a guildy who just logged on and they give him the spot instead of me"

or

"My group is camping "Not so Awesome Camp", and there is another group at "Awesome Camp", but now their tank and healer are leaving, they have replacements coming, but my group stated they wanted to move to their camp an hour ago"

"This is unfair! The rules clearly state the camp is MINE!"

I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about one person camping a single static spawn.

NN for arguments by analogy, those are weak, and we are talking about one thing and not that other thing you just made up.

[MiRo2]

Originally Posted by Skinned [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NN for arguments by analogy, those are weak, and we are talking about one thing and not that other thing you just made up.

I'm sorry, let me try again.

Camper A, "Hey Camper C, come join my group at AC in OoT!" or "/gu I'm about to log off, anyone want to take over my camp?"
Camper C, "Sure!"
Camper A, "Welp time for me log off, good luck with AC Camper C!"
Camper B, "Hey, I was next on the list!"
Camper C, "What list?"
Camper B, "/petition dey took my merb!"

Add as much or as little time between lines as you feel is necessary.



My point is unchanged. Player agreements and server norms are player enforced. Sever Staff decisions are made on a case by case basis on all the factors involved; player statements/opinions/observations made from those decisions are not server rules.

If the server norm is a running list for AC:OoT, then its player enforced. Why is attempting to call the "ban hammer" rather than let the community(Red:PvP, Blue:Reputation) deal with it the first option?

[Skinned]

Originally Posted by MiRo2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, let me try again.

Camper A, "Hey Camper C, come join my group at AC in OoT!" or "/gu I'm about to log off, anyone want to take over my camp?"
Camper C, "Sure!"
Camper A, "Welp time for me log off, good luck with AC Camper C!"
Camper B, "Hey, I was next on the list!"
Camper C, "What list?"
Camper B, "/petition dey took my merb!"

Add as much or as little time between lines as you feel is necessary.



My point is unchanged. Player agreements and server norms are player enforced. Sever Staff decisions are made on a case by case basis on all the factors involved; player statements/opinions/observations made from those decisions are not server rules.

If the server norm is a running list for AC:OoT, then its player enforced. Why is attempting to call the "ban hammer" rather than let the community(Red:PvP, Blue:Reputation) deal with it the first option?

I'm not thinking about a "list" as much as somebody sitting there in line. The situation I'm referring to is player A is camping AC. Player B is sitting there waiting in line, possibly for hours. Person A gets the Ring of the Ancients on the spawn, and artificially holds up the progression of the camp for player C, who hasn't even been there, because he is friends with player A, which is more opposition to nepotism trumping fair play over not honoring an imaginary list.

If player B is on some sort of "list" like "send me a tell when you're done with this camp" and not physically (pixelly) there, then call a friend, there is no obligation to pass the word on that the camp is open to anybody, with that I agree.

I believe it is in the spirit of the First Come First Serve rule of classic EQ that the next person in line gets the camp, because he is there first.

Now if Player A is killing the AC, and does not agree to pass the camp on to Player B, and Player C is successfully able to get to the camp, group up for the kill assist, then Player C wants to keep the camp...that is a tough situation. I would say that Player C should have to wait in line like Player B, but that is opinion and there isn't a clear way.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by MiRo2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"I've been shouting LFG for the past two hours, and a spot opens in "Awesome Camp" group, but they have a guildy who just logged on and they give him the spot instead of me"

or

"My group is camping "Not so Awesome Camp", and there is another group at "Awesome Camp", but now their tank and healer are leaving, they have replacements coming, but my group stated they wanted to move to their camp an hour ago"

"This is unfair! The rules clearly state the camp is MINE!"



Player agreements or server norms, are player enforced. People need to quit looking upwards to settle disputes, and form a semi-cohesive community instead.

Players who went against server norms in Classic were ostracized, but so were players who did nothing but whine and complain to the zone or Guides/GMs for every, actual or perceived, slight against them.




o What guild is he in?
o Will a hit team show up to take it back?
o How will this make me look to the community?
o Can I even take this guy?

Are all legitimate questions to be asked in this situation. Unfortunately none of them matter on Red.

Project 1999 Red Server:
The quintessential Catch 22. It would be the BEST server around if it actually had a healthy player population and community to dole out occasional justice to the bad eggs; it will never be the best server because there isn't currently a healthly player population and community, because of the bad eggs currently there.

WipeItClean2016






P.S.
I haven't even been to the AC camp in OoT since 2011.

Your ideas about common sense and player agreements go out the window when:
1) A lot of the community doesn't give a shit about the "community"
2) Staff are limited in what they can do in terms of enforcement
3) Even if a player is banned it's FREE to start a new account and get PLed by your fellow scumbags

Classic EQ has a lot of mechanics that allow for douchebaggery like people said, unless you change mechanics there are people who push the rules and people look to prior rulings for precedent. A lot of situations that come up aren't even two parties being douchebags to each other, just that there's no real clear cut way to settle things...look at people who like NBG v. greed rolls it's fairly split on that topic.

P.S. Posting for a friend

[MiRo2]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your ideas about common sense and player agreements go out the window when:

1) A lot of the community doesn't give a shit about the "community"

Why do they have to go out the window? A lot of the community not caring, means it is not a community.

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2) Staff are limited in what they can do in terms of enforcement

This is healthy for the server, forcing decisions down the throats of players only encourages "rule lawyering" and discourages any actual community from forming.

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3) Even if a player is banned it's FREE to start a new account and get PLed by your fellow scumbags

Let's hope that if they do open a new server, there is a feature that discourages this.

Let's also hope someone else posted between my last post and this one!



Posting for an acquaintance.